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Kwartin
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PostSubject: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:23 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmnhXf31Q1E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Dlx0ppGe0


Here's the improvisation stuff I did earlier today/yesterday, it's not the greatest but I'm trying.

Any tips, points, advice, mean comments etc would be appreciated. :3
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Mon Sep 07, 2009 3:30 pm

Ok, first of all you need to work on your phrasing. It wasn't very good, but that's just being honest.

1, work on bending, vibarato, hammer ons etc. These are very important for improvising.
2, make it less complex. A lot of the time you seemed to not really know what you were doing because you were just hitting random notes in that key. Just keep it simple and remember to phrase well. Just follow what sounds good and play it, this will get easier.
3, drop the tapping, complex structures. The tapping doesn't sound good because it's out of place so I wouldn't use that anymore.
4, What I recommend you do is just to jam in Am pentatonic under a blues kind of thing. It makes learning to phrase much easy.

Other than that all I can say is keep going! tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Mon Sep 07, 2009 5:54 pm

Monkzum wrote:
Ok, first of all you need to work on your phrasing. It wasn't very good, but that's just being honest.

1, work on bending, vibarato, hammer ons etc. These are very important for improvising.
2, make it less complex. A lot of the time you seemed to not really know what you were doing because you were just hitting random notes in that key. Just keep it simple and remember to phrase well. Just follow what sounds good and play it, this will get easier.
3, drop the tapping, complex structures. The tapping doesn't sound good because it's out of place so I wouldn't use that anymore.
4, What I recommend you do is just to jam in Am pentatonic under a blues kind of thing. It makes learning to phrase much easy.

Other than that all I can say is keep going! tongue

What's phrasing?

1: Will do.
2: That's what I was doing. >.<
3: All together, or just until I get better?
4: I usually did Am Pentatonic, but I wanted a bit of a change.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Mon Sep 07, 2009 6:06 pm

Kwartin wrote:
Monkzum wrote:
3, drop the tapping, complex structures. The tapping doesn't sound good because it's out of place so I wouldn't use that anymore.

3: All together, or just until I get better?

until you figure something out that works with the scale

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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:20 pm

Kwartin wrote:
Monkzum wrote:
Ok, first of all you need to work on your phrasing. It wasn't very good, but that's just being honest.

1, work on bending, vibarato, hammer ons etc. These are very important for improvising.
2, make it less complex. A lot of the time you seemed to not really know what you were doing because you were just hitting random notes in that key. Just keep it simple and remember to phrase well. Just follow what sounds good and play it, this will get easier.
3, drop the tapping, complex structures. The tapping doesn't sound good because it's out of place so I wouldn't use that anymore.
4, What I recommend you do is just to jam in Am pentatonic under a blues kind of thing. It makes learning to phrase much easy.

Other than that all I can say is keep going! tongue

What's phrasing?

1: Will do.
2: That's what I was doing. >.<
3: All together, or just until I get better?
4: I usually did Am Pentatonic, but I wanted a bit of a change.

1,Phrasing is like bends, hammer ons, pull offs etc. It basically makes everything more interesting and enjoyable to listen to. A good way to learn about phrasing is by listening out for it in solos. All solos have phrasing and every guitarist has a different style of phrasing. Best way is too practise all phrasing techniques and study other guitarists' solos to try and understand them more.

2, It didn't seem very thoughtful from what I heard. Just keep it slow and it'll be easier to show that you are doing that.

3, For the moment drop the tapping. Tapping's a terribly overrated technique and it generally doesn't work for improvising unless it's done perfectly and it's a short little tap. 'triplet' tapping in improvising is generally not advised. They work better for prepared solos (like Masked Jackal by Coroner).

4, That's fine but the best way to practise is by using that, there are far more possibilities with the pentatonic scale than you currently realise bounce
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:33 pm

Monkzum wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
Monkzum wrote:
Ok, first of all you need to work on your phrasing. It wasn't very good, but that's just being honest.

1, work on bending, vibarato, hammer ons etc. These are very important for improvising.
2, make it less complex. A lot of the time you seemed to not really know what you were doing because you were just hitting random notes in that key. Just keep it simple and remember to phrase well. Just follow what sounds good and play it, this will get easier.
3, drop the tapping, complex structures. The tapping doesn't sound good because it's out of place so I wouldn't use that anymore.
4, What I recommend you do is just to jam in Am pentatonic under a blues kind of thing. It makes learning to phrase much easy.

Other than that all I can say is keep going! tongue

What's phrasing?

1: Will do.
2: That's what I was doing. >.<
3: All together, or just until I get better?
4: I usually did Am Pentatonic, but I wanted a bit of a change.

1,Phrasing is like bends, hammer ons, pull offs etc. It basically makes everything more interesting and enjoyable to listen to. A good way to learn about phrasing is by listening out for it in solos. All solos have phrasing and every guitarist has a different style of phrasing. Best way is too practise all phrasing techniques and study other guitarists' solos to try and understand them more.

2, It didn't seem very thoughtful from what I heard. Just keep it slow and it'll be easier to show that you are doing that.

3, For the moment drop the tapping. Tapping's a terribly overrated technique and it generally doesn't work for improvising unless it's done perfectly and it's a short little tap. 'triplet' tapping in improvising is generally not advised. They work better for prepared solos (like Masked Jackal by Coroner).

4, That's fine but the best way to practise is by using that, there are far more possibilities with the pentatonic scale than you currently realise bounce

1: So phrasing is just the technique?

2: I don't know how to make it thoughtful though. D:

3: Drop tapping. Got'cha.

4: What are some of these possibilities? xP
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:48 pm

Kwartin wrote:
Monkzum wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
Monkzum wrote:
Ok, first of all you need to work on your phrasing. It wasn't very good, but that's just being honest.

1, work on bending, vibarato, hammer ons etc. These are very important for improvising.
2, make it less complex. A lot of the time you seemed to not really know what you were doing because you were just hitting random notes in that key. Just keep it simple and remember to phrase well. Just follow what sounds good and play it, this will get easier.
3, drop the tapping, complex structures. The tapping doesn't sound good because it's out of place so I wouldn't use that anymore.
4, What I recommend you do is just to jam in Am pentatonic under a blues kind of thing. It makes learning to phrase much easy.

Other than that all I can say is keep going! tongue

What's phrasing?

1: Will do.
2: That's what I was doing. >.<
3: All together, or just until I get better?
4: I usually did Am Pentatonic, but I wanted a bit of a change.

1,Phrasing is like bends, hammer ons, pull offs etc. It basically makes everything more interesting and enjoyable to listen to. A good way to learn about phrasing is by listening out for it in solos. All solos have phrasing and every guitarist has a different style of phrasing. Best way is too practise all phrasing techniques and study other guitarists' solos to try and understand them more.

2, It didn't seem very thoughtful from what I heard. Just keep it slow and it'll be easier to show that you are doing that.

3, For the moment drop the tapping. Tapping's a terribly overrated technique and it generally doesn't work for improvising unless it's done perfectly and it's a short little tap. 'triplet' tapping in improvising is generally not advised. They work better for prepared solos (like Masked Jackal by Coroner).

4, That's fine but the best way to practise is by using that, there are far more possibilities with the pentatonic scale than you currently realise bounce

1: So phrasing is just the technique?

2: I don't know how to make it thoughtful though. D:

3: Drop tapping. Got'cha.

4: What are some of these possibilities? xP

1, phrasing isn't exactly technique.. phrasing is basically the way you play something. For instance, play three notes at random in a scale. Just play them in order, rhythm doesn't matter. It sounds boring right? Now maybe do a hammer on from the first note to the second note and then do some vibrato on the third note. It sounds a lot better now because it's more interesting. My guitar teacher litterally just told me to practise bending and vibrato on one note for ten minutes each day. You can do surprisingly good things with just one note and it really makes you think about how you play it as you don't have the option of just playing a bunch of notes.

2, Listen to other guitarists: BB king, Pat Metheney and so on. Just hear how they do it and then just play what you think will sound good. Don't make it too complicated, if you don't feel in control then you won't be able to make it thoughtful.

3, Yep. It's worth practising it every so often but it is far from being a priority, guitarists actually rarely use it.

4, Well when I was starting to improvise I was just playing licks i'd already played before. This is mostly because I was only using one position but also because I wasn't thinking about what could sound interesting. I recommend looking into the further positions of the pentatonic scale or asking your teacher once you're fully confident about the first position. It's mostly just practice and experience that will reveal the possibilities.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:49 pm

Kwartin wrote:

1: So phrasing is just the technique?

it's more like the structure of your solo, like you can be doing lick A, switch to lick B and then back to lick A, then maybe lick C etc etc etc
or when you're listening to a solo, trying to figure it out, and you listen for little sections so you can work on that part before moving on

for example, Santeria by Sublime:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrLJ6Saq7u4

listen to the solo, and you can hear all the phrases
1:41-1:45
1:45-1:48
1:48-1:50
1:50-1:56
1:56-2:02

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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:52 pm

Fuck it, ignore everything I said. I've confused what phrasing is.

Do what he says lol.

(still take my advice though, it's important, it's just not phrasing)
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:21 pm

Phrasing is as Will said, it's how you play something. All the little rhythmic things and different "feels" you can give it.

Tapping is fun but yeah, you don't need it right now.

Also, I'd recommend slowing down a bit for now. Work on just doing a couple of cool little licks within the "pentatonic box". I'll upload a video one of these days and show you what I mean.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:11 pm

Kool beenz.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 5:29 pm

I don't feel anything. Where's the mood and emotion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUG9JyPgnMs

Watch this video and notice the fingers. They're doing all sorts of things like bending, sliding etc. Try to do them on your guitar. That's the trick behind guitar solos.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:59 pm

I think I get what phrasing is, but I'm still not entirely sure how to put mood or emotion in it.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:36 pm

Kwartin wrote:
I think I get what phrasing is, but I'm still not entirely sure how to put mood or emotion in it.

stop being a robot and start being David Gilmour! Razz


Seriously though, aside from being kinda sloppy, it seemed like you were relying too much on a metronome and a bit too preoccupied with keeping in time to try fancier stuff. It's good to keep the rhythm, but not to the point where you start to sound like a robot.

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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:39 pm

bleghman wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
I think I get what phrasing is, but I'm still not entirely sure how to put mood or emotion in it.

stop being a robot and start being David Gilmour! Razz


Seriously though, aside from being kinda sloppy, it seemed like you were relying too much on a metronome and a bit too preoccupied with keeping in time to try fancier stuff. It's good to keep the rhythm, but not to the point where you start to sound like a robot.

...
Maybe I AM a robot... >.<

Will it come with practice, or is it something I should know how to do now? xD
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:57 am

Practice mostly.

The important thing is that you practise properly and then it will come very quickly. Just practise by using your ear and using lots of techniques like slides and vibrato. Think of it like talking, you can be all monotone and just play notes or you can put emotion into your voice and add vibrato. My guiar teacher went on a massive speech one lesson about how guitar playing is just like speaking. Each phrase is litterally like a phrase when you speak.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Wed Sep 09, 2009 3:12 am

Kwartin wrote:
I think I get what phrasing is, but I'm still not entirely sure how to put mood or emotion in it.

To sum up what's been said earlier, you should know the following techniques:

Bending
Sliding
Pull-off
Hammer-on
Two-string bend
Ghost bend
Pinch harmonics

The 2 string bend (I'm not even sure it's called that), is hard to explain. You play two strings at the same time, but you bend only one of them. It usually sounds like a "moan" or a "scream" in blues and metal, respectively. Isn't that emotion? It's that simple. The techniques listed above will eventually blend and make your unique style. If you love what you play and are good at doing it, you will have no problem making people "feel" like something. Wah pedals also help greatly because they imitate human vocals. Ask if you're having trouble with any of the techniques.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:47 am

Monkzum wrote:
Practice mostly.

The important thing is that you practise properly and then it will come very quickly. Just practise by using your ear and using lots of techniques like slides and vibrato. Think of it like talking, you can be all monotone and just play notes or you can put emotion into your voice and add vibrato. My guiar teacher went on a massive speech one lesson about how guitar playing is just like speaking. Each phrase is litterally like a phrase when you speak.

I've never done a whole lot of practice for it. Just about a weeks worth so he could record me.



Ahmedeus wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
I think I get what phrasing is, but I'm still not entirely sure how to put mood or emotion in it.

To sum up what's been said earlier, you should know the following techniques:

Bending
Sliding
Pull-off
Hammer-on
Two-string bend
Ghost bend
Pinch harmonics

The 2 string bend (I'm not even sure it's called that), is hard to explain. You play two strings at the same time, but you bend only one of them. It usually sounds like a "moan" or a "scream" in blues and metal, respectively. Isn't that emotion? It's that simple. The techniques listed above will eventually blend and make your unique style. If you love what you play and are good at doing it, you will have no problem making people "feel" like something. Wah pedals also help greatly because they imitate human vocals. Ask if you're having trouble with any of the techniques.

What's a ghost bend? Everything else I know. =D
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:11 am

It's a bend before you pluck it. You bend the string first, and then you pluck it.

Like I said, I'll show you how to spice up your playing.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:17 am

Nautilus wrote:
It's a bend before you pluck it. You bend the string first, and then you pluck it.

Like I said, I'll show you how to spice up your playing.

Ahh. Got'cha.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:19 am

Ahmedeus wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
I think I get what phrasing is, but I'm still not entirely sure how to put mood or emotion in it.

To sum up what's been said earlier, you should know the following techniques:

Bending
Sliding
Pull-off
Hammer-on

Two-string bend
Ghost bend
Pinch harmonics

The 2 string bend (I'm not even sure it's called that), is hard to explain. You play two strings at the same time, but you bend only one of them. It usually sounds like a "moan" or a "scream" in blues and metal, respectively. Isn't that emotion? It's that simple. The techniques listed above will eventually blend and make your unique style. If you love what you play and are good at doing it, you will have no problem making people "feel" like something. Wah pedals also help greatly because they imitate human vocals. Ask if you're having trouble with any of the techniques.

The ones I put in bold are by far the most important. Pinch harmonics are overused anyway but if you want to use them occasionally that's fine. Two string bends are really simple, you know Run To The Hills by Iron Maiden? The intro uses two string bends. Basically you bend one string and play two but at different notes. Most commonly you bend the the second string so that it rises in pitch to meet the exact pitch of the first bend. Fight by No Vacancy is also another good example of this. This isn't really important for improvising but for thought out solos it can be useful.

'Ghost' bends are more commonly referred to as pre-bends. They add a good effect and basically work as a whammy bar except that it goes back to the original note. Loads of great blues guitarists use this all the time so it's important and it's also used in a lot of rock licks.

Just to make it a bit clearer lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:00 pm

Monkzum wrote:
Two string bends are really simple, you know Run To The Hills by Iron Maiden? The intro uses two string bends. Basically you bend one string and play two but at different notes. Most commonly you bend the the second string so that it rises in pitch to meet the exact pitch of the first bend. Fight by No Vacancy is also another good example of this. This isn't really important for improvising but for thought out solos it can be useful.

the outro in Ace of Spades?

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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:16 pm

bleghman wrote:
Monkzum wrote:
Two string bends are really simple, you know Run To The Hills by Iron Maiden? The intro uses two string bends. Basically you bend one string and play two but at different notes. Most commonly you bend the the second string so that it rises in pitch to meet the exact pitch of the first bend. Fight by No Vacancy is also another good example of this. This isn't really important for improvising but for thought out solos it can be useful.

the outro in Ace of Spades?

Yeah that too, but my examples are a little easier to understand because they're so blatantly obvious.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:55 am

Monkzum wrote:
Ahmedeus wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
I think I get what phrasing is, but I'm still not entirely sure how to put mood or emotion in it.

To sum up what's been said earlier, you should know the following techniques:

Bending
Sliding
Pull-off
Hammer-on

Two-string bend
Ghost bend
Pinch harmonics

The 2 string bend (I'm not even sure it's called that), is hard to explain. You play two strings at the same time, but you bend only one of them. It usually sounds like a "moan" or a "scream" in blues and metal, respectively. Isn't that emotion? It's that simple. The techniques listed above will eventually blend and make your unique style. If you love what you play and are good at doing it, you will have no problem making people "feel" like something. Wah pedals also help greatly because they imitate human vocals. Ask if you're having trouble with any of the techniques.

The ones I put in bold are by far the most important. Pinch harmonics are overused anyway but if you want to use them occasionally that's fine. Two string bends are really simple, you know Run To The Hills by Iron Maiden? The intro uses two string bends. Basically you bend one string and play two but at different notes. Most commonly you bend the the second string so that it rises in pitch to meet the exact pitch of the first bend. Fight by No Vacancy is also another good example of this. This isn't really important for improvising but for thought out solos it can be useful.

'Ghost' bends are more commonly referred to as pre-bends. They add a good effect and basically work as a whammy bar except that it goes back to the original note. Loads of great blues guitarists use this all the time so it's important and it's also used in a lot of rock licks.

Just to make it a bit clearer lol.

Should a whammy bar be used with improvisation? I have one, but I don't use it.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:08 am

Kwartin wrote:
I think I get what phrasing is, but I'm still not entirely sure how to put mood or emotion in it.

Depends what emotion you want to get behind it. Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" is a classic slow one, where he uses a lot of slow bends to get a sad tone through. Satriani managed (at least for me) to accurately convey a sense of purpose in "Gnaah", which is a lot of pinch harmonic and basic bends.

Also think about power; do you want it fluid and quick? Staccato and hard hitting?

Sfogli has some of the most fluid legato I can think of here (I mean, im not saying to try and play this, but rather take note of the contrast between the force he hits the string).

I agree that you should focus on simplicity, basic scale work with the odd hammer on. Maybe if you're adventurous add in a short legato. I'd also look into pacing, it was all very similar in terms of pacing. Go into a slow bend then a short brust of speed. Maybe mix in a couple of power chords into the riffs to give emphasis to certain notes. Basically there are simple and easy ways to add variety to it without trying anything too complicated.

Oh, and definitely leave out the tapping Razz

EDIT: As for whammy bars, personal choice. I personally hate them, and simply work on getting more power to the bends - I prefer the fluidity over the flexibility of tone. I can generally hit pretty close to 2 notes higher now with them, and if I need more than that I'll just slide and do a pre-bend back down.

EDIT2: Slow down the slides. The intention isn't to get there as fast as possible, keep finger down hard and slow down the slide. This will change the sound from a sudden 'rip' tone to a fast-paced ringing of each note in turn.
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