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Kwartin
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:23 am

Rosalind wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
I think I get what phrasing is, but I'm still not entirely sure how to put mood or emotion in it.

Depends what emotion you want to get behind it. Floyd's "Comfortably Numb" is a classic slow one, where he uses a lot of slow bends to get a sad tone through. Satriani managed (at least for me) to accurately convey a sense of purpose in "Gnaah", which is a lot of pinch harmonic and basic bends.

Also think about power; do you want it fluid and quick? Staccato and hard hitting?

Sfogli has some of the most fluid legato I can think of here (I mean, im not saying to try and play this, but rather take note of the contrast between the force he hits the string).

I agree that you should focus on simplicity, basic scale work with the odd hammer on. Maybe if you're adventurous add in a short legato. I'd also look into pacing, it was all very similar in terms of pacing. Go into a slow bend then a short brust of speed. Maybe mix in a couple of power chords into the riffs to give emphasis to certain notes. Basically there are simple and easy ways to add variety to it without trying anything too complicated.

I don't quite get what Legato and Staccato are. >.<


Rosalind wrote:
Oh, and definitely leave out the tapping Razz

I have. xP

Rosalind wrote:
EDIT: As for whammy bars, personal choice. I personally hate them, and simply work on getting more power to the bends - I prefer the fluidity over the flexibility of tone. I can generally hit pretty close to 2 notes higher now with them, and if I need more than that I'll just slide and do a pre-bend back down.

I don't use mine because it usually take my guitar out of tune and I've never really seen a need for it.

Rosalind wrote:
EDIT2: Slow down the slides. The intention isn't to get there as fast as possible, keep finger down hard and slow down the slide. This will change the sound from a sudden 'rip' tone to a fast-paced ringing of each note in turn.

I've been slowing them down actually. xP





Also, anyone know where I can find backing tracks, I was using Youtube yesterday, but I want something that I can loop.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:56 am

Legato is quick and fluid motions - each note should bleed into each other and you shouldn't hear the string being picked at all. Listen to the Sfogli about 29 seconds in, that is legato. Usually its done by picking the string once then using a load of hammer ons and pull offs, only picking again when you move to a new string (pay attention to his right hand).

Staccato is where you pick each note and make sure each is distinctly heard. Something of a "stop-start" effect. Staccato. I have no idea who plays this, but its a decent enough example of staccato guitar, where he hits each note prominently.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:34 am

I know a lot of these have been said already, but the big things for imrpov are..

KNOW THE FRETBOARD (you gotta know what you're playing, you can't just be hitting random notes and playing off patterns)

VARIATION: don't play the same riffs and patterns all the time, and mix up the way you play too, do a little pickup switching on the fly, and throw in different techniques as you need to.

COMMUNICATION: When you're improvising onstage, you need to make sure everyone's on the same page, so you don't sound like a bunch of 13 yr olds "jamming".

CONFIDENCE: If you mess up, don't let the audience know: just roll with it, and make yourself look even cooler.

FIT: (this is especially true with solos) If you're doing a solo, make sure it fits the song. You don't have to play lightning fast all the time. And it doesn't need to be too complicated either.

STYLE: Be your own musician. Don't try to be exactly like your musical heroes.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:48 am

Just thought of a technique thats piss easy and good for extended notes; Tap Harmonics.

If you hold an open note, you can tap the 5th/7th/12th/19th fret, just to dull out the sound and leave the harmonic frequency. If you hold the 3rd fret, you would tap the 8th/10th/15th/22nd fret. Alternatively, just gently place your finger over the string to slowly cause a transition into the harmonic frequency.

Its one of those techniques thats probably not gonna be used often, but for the 15mins it'll take to figure out it might be worth doing.
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Monkzum
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:05 am

This will come over time but being able to have relative pitch is good as you can plan out what you want to hear before. You can practise it conciously but I find it better to just be aware and eventually it will become easy to do it. I'm not perfect by any shot but good enough to be able to understand what sounds I want to make.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:16 pm

Monkzum wrote:
This will come over time but being able to have relative pitch is good as you can plan out what you want to hear before. You can practise it conciously but I find it better to just be aware and eventually it will become easy to do it. I'm not perfect by any shot but good enough to be able to understand what sounds I want to make.

Apparently, I have "perfect pitch", and it helps tremendously. I can figure out most songs by ear, and I can plan out how I want to play in my head.

Relative pitch would certainly be a huge help in any imrpov situation.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:30 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Just thought of a technique thats piss easy and good for extended notes; Tap Harmonics.

If you hold an open note, you can tap the 5th/7th/12th/19th fret, just to dull out the sound and leave the harmonic frequency. If you hold the 3rd fret, you would tap the 8th/10th/15th/22nd fret. Alternatively, just gently place your finger over the string to slowly cause a transition into the harmonic frequency.

Its one of those techniques thats probably not gonna be used often, but for the 15mins it'll take to figure out it might be worth doing.

It follows the perfect intervals - 4th, 5th, and octave.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:52 pm

We left out probably the most important solo technique; Vibrato.

Another nice (but advanced) trick is Pick Harmonics, also called squealies. Don't confuse them with Pinch Harmonics, that's what Zakk Wylde does. Here's a lesson:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq9MNCj3UiA
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sat Sep 12, 2009 7:16 pm

I'm going into lessons again tomorrow and I've been practicing what you guys have said, so I'm going to do another take. Get you guys to criticize that and give me some more pointers.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 4:42 am

Kwartin wrote:
I'm going into lessons again tomorrow and I've been practicing what you guys have said, so I'm going to do another take. Get you guys to criticize that and give me some more pointers.

Awesome, looking forward to it. afro
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:13 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eU05NTweI&feature=sub

New one of me. I'm still not the greatest, but he said there was a definite improvement and I've been practicing a fair bit about what you guys said. :3

[Edit]
Also, I know I my bends aren't the greatest, nor are my pinch harmonics. I'm working on those.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:36 pm

Kwartin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eU05NTweI&feature=sub

New one of me. I'm still not the greatest, but he said there was a definite improvement and I've been practicing a fair bit about what you guys said. :3

[Edit]
Also, I know I my bends aren't the greatest, nor is my pinch harmonics. I'm working on those.

Definite improvement. With the bends, your bending the string but not fretting it hard enough resulting in that slightly dull note. In a similar manner, the slides felt a lot better but not as clear as would be ideal; perhaps ensure your finger is pressed a bit firmer.

Otherwise, you're spending a lot of time at the very top end of the fret board. Personally, I rarely see need to go beyond the 17th fret, and with the number of dead notes at that end it might be an idea to try to explore the low end a bit more. Did you even use the top three strings? Razz

Things to work on (imo) include pace (a lot of it still felt similar), hammer ons (throwing on a quick hammer on before a slide or bend lends some more contrast) and bends. When you get accurate with the bends they can be an excellent technique to use (not to mention ghost bends).

EDIT: A good practice with the bends is to try to bend it and hit dead on the pitch of the next fret. Start around the 9th fret as its easier to bend there.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 6:54 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eU05NTweI&feature=sub

New one of me. I'm still not the greatest, but he said there was a definite improvement and I've been practicing a fair bit about what you guys said. :3

[Edit]
Also, I know I my bends aren't the greatest, nor is my pinch harmonics. I'm working on those.

Definite improvement. With the bends, your bending the string but not fretting it hard enough resulting in that slightly dull note. In a similar manner, the slides felt a lot better but not as clear as would be ideal; perhaps ensure your finger is pressed a bit firmer.

Otherwise, you're spending a lot of time at the very top end of the fret board. Personally, I rarely see need to go beyond the 17th fret, and with the number of dead notes at that end it might be an idea to try to explore the low end a bit more. Did you even use the top three strings? Razz

Things to work on (imo) include pace (a lot of it still felt similar), hammer ons (throwing on a quick hammer on before a slide or bend lends some more contrast) and bends. When you get accurate with the bends they can be an excellent technique to use (not to mention ghost bends).

I think I hit string three once or twice. Or that might have been before I was recorded, he told me to practice to it a bit. I'll work on using them though.

Pace meaning speed? Or something else? >.<
Ghost bend is the picking the string while it's bent, right? I tried using them and the two note bends.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:10 pm

Kwartin wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eU05NTweI&feature=sub

New one of me. I'm still not the greatest, but he said there was a definite improvement and I've been practicing a fair bit about what you guys said. :3

[Edit]
Also, I know I my bends aren't the greatest, nor is my pinch harmonics. I'm working on those.

Definite improvement. With the bends, your bending the string but not fretting it hard enough resulting in that slightly dull note. In a similar manner, the slides felt a lot better but not as clear as would be ideal; perhaps ensure your finger is pressed a bit firmer.

Otherwise, you're spending a lot of time at the very top end of the fret board. Personally, I rarely see need to go beyond the 17th fret, and with the number of dead notes at that end it might be an idea to try to explore the low end a bit more. Did you even use the top three strings? Razz

Things to work on (imo) include pace (a lot of it still felt similar), hammer ons (throwing on a quick hammer on before a slide or bend lends some more contrast) and bends. When you get accurate with the bends they can be an excellent technique to use (not to mention ghost bends).

I think I hit string three once or twice. Or that might have been before I was recorded, he told me to practice to it a bit. I'll work on using them though.

Pace meaning speed? Or something else? >.<
Ghost bend is the picking the string while it's bent, right? I tried using them and the two note bends.

More or less. A metronome plays at a speed, the pace is how it flows from one to the other. You can still maintain the same tempo whilst varying the pace, or the speed in which you play. the most obvious example that comes to mind is Zappa's "Black Napkins," where he instantly goes from high pace to slow bends.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:14 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eU05NTweI&feature=sub

New one of me. I'm still not the greatest, but he said there was a definite improvement and I've been practicing a fair bit about what you guys said. :3

[Edit]
Also, I know I my bends aren't the greatest, nor is my pinch harmonics. I'm working on those.

Definite improvement. With the bends, your bending the string but not fretting it hard enough resulting in that slightly dull note. In a similar manner, the slides felt a lot better but not as clear as would be ideal; perhaps ensure your finger is pressed a bit firmer.

Otherwise, you're spending a lot of time at the very top end of the fret board. Personally, I rarely see need to go beyond the 17th fret, and with the number of dead notes at that end it might be an idea to try to explore the low end a bit more. Did you even use the top three strings? Razz

Things to work on (imo) include pace (a lot of it still felt similar), hammer ons (throwing on a quick hammer on before a slide or bend lends some more contrast) and bends. When you get accurate with the bends they can be an excellent technique to use (not to mention ghost bends).

I think I hit string three once or twice. Or that might have been before I was recorded, he told me to practice to it a bit. I'll work on using them though.

Pace meaning speed? Or something else? >.<
Ghost bend is the picking the string while it's bent, right? I tried using them and the two note bends.

More or less. A metronome plays at a speed, the pace is how it flows from one to the other. You can still maintain the same tempo whilst varying the pace, or the speed in which you play. the most obvious example that comes to mind is Zappa's "Black Napkins," where he instantly goes from high pace to slow bends.

So like, the note speed? 16th's or whatever?
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:18 pm

Yeah, it felt a bit similar. Adding on a few hammer-ons may help break that up a lot, though perhaps certain passages could be played 'double time' as it were.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:19 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Yeah, it felt a bit similar. Adding on a few hammer-ons may help break that up a lot, though perhaps certain passages could be played 'double time' as it were.

Speed is a thing I need to work on. I don't have a whole lot of it. ^^;
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 7:37 pm

Kwartin wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Yeah, it felt a bit similar. Adding on a few hammer-ons may help break that up a lot, though perhaps certain passages could be played 'double time' as it were.

Speed is a thing I need to work on. I don't have a whole lot of it. ^^;

I dont mean speed as in fast speed, but rather simply varying it.

Simple example, Hendrix. Slow intro, then he changes the pace for verse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSW67ySCio

Same with Clapton's Layla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WUdlaLWSVM&feature=fvw

Quick passage followed by a slower one. Im not referring to what speed you play at, but rather varying it.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:22 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Yeah, it felt a bit similar. Adding on a few hammer-ons may help break that up a lot, though perhaps certain passages could be played 'double time' as it were.

Speed is a thing I need to work on. I don't have a whole lot of it. ^^;

I dont mean speed as in fast speed, but rather simply varying it.

Simple example, Hendrix. Slow intro, then he changes the pace for verse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSW67ySCio

Same with Clapton's Layla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WUdlaLWSVM&feature=fvw

Quick passage followed by a slower one. Im not referring to what speed you play at, but rather varying it.

I know Layla, so I'll just use what I know from it.
I think you mean the fast little bit right at the beginning? The Dananananana and then the slower na na na na na na na na na sort of thing?
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:28 pm

Kwartin wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Yeah, it felt a bit similar. Adding on a few hammer-ons may help break that up a lot, though perhaps certain passages could be played 'double time' as it were.

Speed is a thing I need to work on. I don't have a whole lot of it. ^^;

I dont mean speed as in fast speed, but rather simply varying it.

Simple example, Hendrix. Slow intro, then he changes the pace for verse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSW67ySCio

Same with Clapton's Layla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WUdlaLWSVM&feature=fvw

Quick passage followed by a slower one. Im not referring to what speed you play at, but rather varying it.

I know Layla, so I'll just use what I know from it.
I think you mean the fast little bit right at the beginning? The Dananananana and then the slower na na na na na na na na na sort of thing?

Im using them as examples to show what I mean by varying pace. And yeah, that was the bit I referred to. Your notes are very linear in how they are played, theres little change in the speed individual notes are played.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:33 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Yeah, it felt a bit similar. Adding on a few hammer-ons may help break that up a lot, though perhaps certain passages could be played 'double time' as it were.

Speed is a thing I need to work on. I don't have a whole lot of it. ^^;

I dont mean speed as in fast speed, but rather simply varying it.

Simple example, Hendrix. Slow intro, then he changes the pace for verse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hSW67ySCio

Same with Clapton's Layla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WUdlaLWSVM&feature=fvw

Quick passage followed by a slower one. Im not referring to what speed you play at, but rather varying it.

I know Layla, so I'll just use what I know from it.
I think you mean the fast little bit right at the beginning? The Dananananana and then the slower na na na na na na na na na sort of thing?

Im using them as examples to show what I mean by varying pace. And yeah, that was the bit I referred to. Your notes are very linear in how they are played, theres little change in the speed individual notes are played.
Okay, I get'cha now.
That will probably come with practice though, I've got exercises to work on my speed, hopefully there's gonna be an improvement next time I go in. xD
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:50 am

Kwartin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eU05NTweI&feature=sub

New one of me. I'm still not the greatest, but he said there was a definite improvement and I've been practicing a fair bit about what you guys said. :3

[Edit]
Also, I know I my bends aren't the greatest, nor are my pinch harmonics. I'm working on those.

Immediate improvement from the beggining. Just keep practising and you'll be good in no time, it'll be easy to get rid of the sloppiness later and the improvising will improve too. Seriously man, massive improvement, great job.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:32 pm

Monkzum wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eU05NTweI&feature=sub

New one of me. I'm still not the greatest, but he said there was a definite improvement and I've been practicing a fair bit about what you guys said. :3

[Edit]
Also, I know I my bends aren't the greatest, nor are my pinch harmonics. I'm working on those.

Immediate improvement from the beggining. Just keep practising and you'll be good in no time, it'll be easy to get rid of the sloppiness later and the improvising will improve too. Seriously man, massive improvement, great job.

Thanks. :3

Any tips on doing a vibrato while in a bend, I can't quite get it.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:18 pm

Kwartin wrote:
Monkzum wrote:
Kwartin wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eU05NTweI&feature=sub

New one of me. I'm still not the greatest, but he said there was a definite improvement and I've been practicing a fair bit about what you guys said. :3

[Edit]
Also, I know I my bends aren't the greatest, nor are my pinch harmonics. I'm working on those.

Immediate improvement from the beggining. Just keep practising and you'll be good in no time, it'll be easy to get rid of the sloppiness later and the improvising will improve too. Seriously man, massive improvement, great job.

Thanks. :3

Any tips on doing a vibrato while in a bend, I can't quite get it.

Just loosen ever so slightly while bending and then tighten again. It's not that important though.
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PostSubject: Re: Teh Improvs   Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:27 pm

I find use my hand more for vibrato than for straight bends, but largely what Will said. Relax on the force being applied to the string, but maintain pressure on the fret board. Its also MUCH easier to do with only one finger on the string.
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