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Neon_Knight_
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:35 pm

Monkzum wrote:
Neon_Knight_ wrote:
Does anyone know a remotely fun way of learning the theory?
When I get home from a long day of lectures, I really can't be arsed with learning stuff. I'd much rather just play one of my favourite songs, so I'm not really making much progress. Crying or Very sad

I know what you mean man, I don't get anything done except during holidays because school takes up a lot of my time particularly as I get loads of homework. The best way to do it is to learn some scales and just jam on them with other songs. But really, theory is just something that's learnt, there's no real magic way of making it fun, just something you have to do.

pale
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:39 pm

I learnt a few scales then worked on neo-classical stuff. My intention is to later expand into more technical territory and sort of pick up patterns in their music rather than learn a strict set of scales.

Slower? Unquestionably. But more fun Razz
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:05 pm

Nautilus wrote:
Go ahead, ask me anything.

What is a "chord progression"?
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:38 pm

Quite literally, a progression of chords. When multiple notes are played at the same time, it's called a chord, and a chord progression is a sequence of chords. For example, the majority of Psychotic Waltz's "I Remember" is Em D Em D C Em B, I think - so from knowing that it's easy to learn the song. The thing about chord progressions is that they can be played to some extent on every instrument. Tabs are really only for guitar but if you say "D major chord" they're always the same notes, no matter what instrument you play them on. So if you say "play a D, Am, G, F#m7 chord progression", it'll always have the same tonal quality. There are certain rules to how chord progressions are supposed to go also, but I won't bore you with all that because I'm sick.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:10 pm

Nautilus wrote:
Quite literally, a progression of chords. When multiple notes are played at the same time, it's called a chord, and a chord progression is a sequence of chords. For example, the majority of Psychotic Waltz's "I Remember" is Em D Em D C Em B, I think - so from knowing that it's easy to learn the song. The thing about chord progressions is that they can be played to some extent on every instrument. Tabs are really only for guitar but if you say "D major chord" they're always the same notes, no matter what instrument you play them on. So if you say "play a D, Am, G, F#m7 chord progression", it'll always have the same tonal quality. There are certain rules to how chord progressions are supposed to go also, but I won't bore you with all that because I'm sick.

Would the majority of songs on Hibria's "Defying the Rules" be made or chord progressions?

How does a chord differ from a riff?
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:43 pm

Riffs can contain chords. A chord is really just two or more notes played at the same time. A riff, though, is a short, repetitive motif to a song.

I don't know about that Hibria off the top of my head, but the majority of power metal is very chord progression-based.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:56 am

Although I do have an idea of how they differentiate from one another, the differences structure and composition I have some trouble putting into words. Think you could help me there?
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:16 am

The Entity wrote:
Nautilus wrote:
Quite literally, a progression of chords. When multiple notes are played at the same time, it's called a chord, and a chord progression is a sequence of chords. For example, the majority of Psychotic Waltz's "I Remember" is Em D Em D C Em B, I think - so from knowing that it's easy to learn the song. The thing about chord progressions is that they can be played to some extent on every instrument. Tabs are really only for guitar but if you say "D major chord" they're always the same notes, no matter what instrument you play them on. So if you say "play a D, Am, G, F#m7 chord progression", it'll always have the same tonal quality. There are certain rules to how chord progressions are supposed to go also, but I won't bore you with all that because I'm sick.

Would the majority of songs on Hibria's "Defying the Rules" be made or chord progressions?

How does a chord differ from a riff?

Ricard answered that second question perfectly above. A motif if you're wondering is like a little musical idea that recurrs as a main theme throughout a piece. I'm trying to think of a clear example. Ok.. should work.

You know the main riff for Judas Priest's breaking the law? That's a motif. It's a simple idea and is worked throughout the song most notably at about 2/3 of the way in when it's repeated one octave higher.

For Hibria many songs will be based around chord progressions but will contain riffs that have been previously made up, this is very common in power metal. One really clear example of this is in Sabaton's Metal Crue. The first riff sounds like a pretty standard riff but is actually just based off a B G D A chord progression which is played in the chorus. It is very riffy but the riffs are linked very closely to chord progressions.

It's not easy to see in metal because obviously metal is based around riffs. If you were to look at like a pop song there would be a clear chord progression with maybe a few little ideas shoved in but it would be pretty much stuck to that progression.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:25 am

The Entity wrote:
Although I do have an idea of how they differentiate from one another, the differences structure and composition I have some trouble putting into words. Think you could help me there?

Let me see if I cant find some examples.

A chord progression:


A riff (intro only)


Using chords in a riff:


Hopefully that clears things up a bit.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:02 pm

Rosalind wrote:
The Entity wrote:
Although I do have an idea of how they differentiate from one another, the differences structure and composition I have some trouble putting into words. Think you could help me there?

Let me see if I cant find some examples.

A chord progression:


A riff (intro only)


Using chords in a riff:


Hopefully that clears things up a bit.

For the first link, are they using "open chords"?
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:10 pm

Julian:

I doubt it, probably barre chords, it doesn't actually make a difference though.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:19 pm

Open chords. I double checked a live vid to be sure. Definitely open.

Played with distortion you wouldn't notice anyway, its only really with cleaner tones that it becomes noticeable. The pitch of all the individual strings combined will be the same for both barre and open chords, its only with the likes of Chuck Berry that you can clearly hear the two individual strings as well.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:15 pm

What's the difference between barre and open chords?
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:32 pm

The Entity wrote:
What's the difference between barre and open chords?

CAGED system my friend.

Basically, there's no difference. If I played you an open chord and a barre chord at random it would be difficult to notice a difference although open chords are generally brighter. It's basically just how it's played. There are five positions that you can play in which is the CAGED system. The open chords are just the lowest down on the fretboard you can play them.

The open C chord can have a bar attached to the top just like a capo and it becomes a C sharp, that continues down the fretboard. Everything that isn't an open chord is a barre chord because you place your whole finger over the fretboard to act like a capo and raise everything by a certain pitch. So C# played in the C position is a barre chord and so on. Most of the barre chords used however are just variations of the open E and open A though.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:39 pm

The Entity wrote:
What's the difference between barre and open chords?

The strings being plucked. An open chord usually uses a few strings (between two and four) and stays down the far end of the fret board. A barre chord uses all six strings, the index finger used to press down them all in a line acting a bit like a capo with a couple more strings fretted.

Its basically just finger configuration.

The most common type of chord used in rock and metal is the power chord; I don't know the technical jargon (im sure Ricard can fill that in), but basically its a specific shape. The root note (main one to be emphasised) is struck in accordance with the one or two below it, fretted two pitches higher. For example If I was playing the third fret, to emphasise the note and make it broader, I would play it with the 5th fret on the two notes below it. This is pretty much universally adopted by metal.

This demonstrates what I mean by 'emphasis' pretty well. The thicker, higher pitched notes are chords, the deeper galloped picking aren't.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:54 pm

Rosalind wrote:
The Entity wrote:
What's the difference between barre and open chords?

The strings being plucked. An open chord usually uses a few strings (between two and four) and stays down the far end of the fret board. A barre chord uses all six strings, the index finger used to press down them all in a line acting a bit like a capo with a couple more strings fretted.

Its basically just finger configuration.

The most common type of chord used in rock and metal is the power chord; I don't know the technical jargon (im sure Ricard can fill that in), but basically its a specific shape. The root note (main one to be emphasised) is struck in accordance with the one or two below it, fretted two pitches higher. For example If I was playing the third fret, to emphasise the note and make it broader, I would play it with the 5th fret on the two notes below it. This is pretty much universally adopted by metal.

This demonstrates what I mean by 'emphasis' pretty well. The thicker, higher pitched notes are chords, the deeper galloped picking aren't.

So, what are the deeper ones?
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:15 pm

The Entity wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
The Entity wrote:
What's the difference between barre and open chords?

The strings being plucked. An open chord usually uses a few strings (between two and four) and stays down the far end of the fret board. A barre chord uses all six strings, the index finger used to press down them all in a line acting a bit like a capo with a couple more strings fretted.

Its basically just finger configuration.

The most common type of chord used in rock and metal is the power chord; I don't know the technical jargon (im sure Ricard can fill that in), but basically its a specific shape. The root note (main one to be emphasised) is struck in accordance with the one or two below it, fretted two pitches higher. For example If I was playing the third fret, to emphasise the note and make it broader, I would play it with the 5th fret on the two notes below it. This is pretty much universally adopted by metal.

This demonstrates what I mean by 'emphasis' pretty well. The thicker, higher pitched notes are chords, the deeper galloped picking aren't.

So, what are the deeper ones?

Just individual notes.

Palm muted (open E string usually) notes. Palm muting is where the string is muted with the palm of the hand to dull it down rather than let it ring openly. The manner in which they were played is called 'triplets' or 'gallop picking,' where you play three notes in rapid succession, stop, then repeat. The act of playing a note before playing another, then returning to the same note (often used in thrash) is called pedal noting. watch this for a better example. Its blues but should give an idea what I mean by pedal noting.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:27 pm

Rosalind wrote:
The Entity wrote:
What's the difference between barre and open chords?

The strings being plucked. An open chord usually uses a few strings (between two and four) and stays down the far end of the fret board. A barre chord uses all six strings, the index finger used to press down them all in a line acting a bit like a capo with a couple more strings fretted.

Its basically just finger configuration.

The most common type of chord used in rock and metal is the power chord; I don't know the technical jargon (im sure Ricard can fill that in), but basically its a specific shape. The root note (main one to be emphasised) is struck in accordance with the one or two below it, fretted two pitches higher. For example If I was playing the third fret, to emphasise the note and make it broader, I would play it with the 5th fret on the two notes below it. This is pretty much universally adopted by metal.

This demonstrates what I mean by 'emphasis' pretty well. The thicker, higher pitched notes are chords, the deeper galloped picking aren't.

Eh? It has nothing to do with how many strings are played. An open E major chord uses all six strings but is still an open chord whereas a C major barre chord uses five strings.

Power chords are just 5 chords. They are neither major nor minor because they don't have the third. It is just root, fifth and then root again. So an E power chord is called E5 because it only has the root and the fifth.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:33 pm

The only difference between open and barre chords are where they're played. But they still include all the same notes. They're called "barre" chords because one finger usually acts as a "bar" and frets multple notes at the same time by laying it across multiple strings.

"Power chords" usually only have two or three notes in them, and what they do is simplify down a chord to a very, very basic format. Doing so makes it sound darker, tighter, and more raw, so they're very good for rock and metal and such. So the two notes you're usually playing are called the "root" and the "5th". The root is the main note, so say if you wanted to play a G power chord you'd play the G. The 5th comes with chord theory but basically it's the fifth note of the scale. If the root note is G, the G scale would be G A B C D E F# G.

So the two notes you would play would be G and D, and sometimes with that extra G on top to give it a bit of a richer sound. A normal G major chord would be G B D, but those sound "happy" and by taking out that third note (B), you create a chord that's neither major or minor, all you've got is the raw root and fifth.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:34 pm

Nautilus wrote:
The only difference between open and barre chords are where they're played. But they still include all the same notes. They're called "barre" chords because one finger usually acts as a "bar" and frets multple notes at the same time by laying it across multiple strings.

"Power chords" usually only have two or three notes in them, and what they do is simplify down a chord to a very, very basic format. Doing so makes it sound darker, tighter, and more raw, so they're very good for rock and metal and such. So the two notes you're usually playing are called the "root" and the "5th". The root is the main note, so say if you wanted to play a G power chord you'd play the G. The 5th comes with chord theory but basically it's the fifth note of the scale. If the root note is G, the G scale would be G A B C D E F# G.

So the two notes you would play would be G and D, and sometimes with that extra G on top to give it a bit of a richer sound. A normal G major chord would be G B D, but those sound "happy" and by taking out that third note (B), you create a chord that's neither major or minor, all you've got is the raw root and fifth.

*repost*
Although I do have an idea of how they differentiate from one another, the differences structure and composition I have some trouble putting into words. Think you could help me there?
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:36 pm

Monkzum wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
The Entity wrote:
What's the difference between barre and open chords?

The strings being plucked. An open chord usually uses a few strings (between two and four) and stays down the far end of the fret board. A barre chord uses all six strings, the index finger used to press down them all in a line acting a bit like a capo with a couple more strings fretted.

Its basically just finger configuration.

The most common type of chord used in rock and metal is the power chord; I don't know the technical jargon (im sure Ricard can fill that in), but basically its a specific shape. The root note (main one to be emphasised) is struck in accordance with the one or two below it, fretted two pitches higher. For example If I was playing the third fret, to emphasise the note and make it broader, I would play it with the 5th fret on the two notes below it. This is pretty much universally adopted by metal.

This demonstrates what I mean by 'emphasis' pretty well. The thicker, higher pitched notes are chords, the deeper galloped picking aren't.

Eh? It has nothing to do with how many strings are played. An open E major chord uses all six strings but is still an open chord whereas a C major barre chord uses five strings.

NOT MY C MAJOR BAR CHORD
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:54 pm

Monkzum wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
The Entity wrote:
What's the difference between barre and open chords?

The strings being plucked. An open chord usually uses a few strings (between two and four) and stays down the far end of the fret board. A barre chord uses all six strings, the index finger used to press down them all in a line acting a bit like a capo with a couple more strings fretted.

Its basically just finger configuration.

The most common type of chord used in rock and metal is the power chord; I don't know the technical jargon (im sure Ricard can fill that in), but basically its a specific shape. The root note (main one to be emphasised) is struck in accordance with the one or two below it, fretted two pitches higher. For example If I was playing the third fret, to emphasise the note and make it broader, I would play it with the 5th fret on the two notes below it. This is pretty much universally adopted by metal.

This demonstrates what I mean by 'emphasis' pretty well. The thicker, higher pitched notes are chords, the deeper galloped picking aren't.

Eh? It has nothing to do with how many strings are played. An open E major chord uses all six strings but is still an open chord whereas a C major barre chord uses five strings.

Power chords are just 5 chords. They are neither major nor minor because they don't have the third. It is just root, fifth and then root again. So an E power chord is called E5 because it only has the root and the fifth.

Strings fretted, not plucked. My bad.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:04 pm

The Entity wrote:
Nautilus wrote:
The only difference between open and barre chords are where they're played. But they still include all the same notes. They're called "barre" chords because one finger usually acts as a "bar" and frets multple notes at the same time by laying it across multiple strings.

"Power chords" usually only have two or three notes in them, and what they do is simplify down a chord to a very, very basic format. Doing so makes it sound darker, tighter, and more raw, so they're very good for rock and metal and such. So the two notes you're usually playing are called the "root" and the "5th". The root is the main note, so say if you wanted to play a G power chord you'd play the G. The 5th comes with chord theory but basically it's the fifth note of the scale. If the root note is G, the G scale would be G A B C D E F# G.

So the two notes you would play would be G and D, and sometimes with that extra G on top to give it a bit of a richer sound. A normal G major chord would be G B D, but those sound "happy" and by taking out that third note (B), you create a chord that's neither major or minor, all you've got is the raw root and fifth.

*repost*
Although I do have an idea of how they differentiate from one another, the differences structure and composition I have some trouble putting into words. Think you could help me there?

Yeah I saw that earlier, just didn't know how to explain it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBhwPLmQqbg&feature=related

All music is based on some form or other of chord progressions. For example, the chorus to Time What is Time is a progression. Listen to how the overall tonality shifts during that part. Riffs though are short, repeated passages - like that acoustic intro or really most of the song.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 3:40 pm

Nautilus wrote:
The Entity wrote:
Nautilus wrote:
The only difference between open and barre chords are where they're played. But they still include all the same notes. They're called "barre" chords because one finger usually acts as a "bar" and frets multple notes at the same time by laying it across multiple strings.

"Power chords" usually only have two or three notes in them, and what they do is simplify down a chord to a very, very basic format. Doing so makes it sound darker, tighter, and more raw, so they're very good for rock and metal and such. So the two notes you're usually playing are called the "root" and the "5th". The root is the main note, so say if you wanted to play a G power chord you'd play the G. The 5th comes with chord theory but basically it's the fifth note of the scale. If the root note is G, the G scale would be G A B C D E F# G.

So the two notes you would play would be G and D, and sometimes with that extra G on top to give it a bit of a richer sound. A normal G major chord would be G B D, but those sound "happy" and by taking out that third note (B), you create a chord that's neither major or minor, all you've got is the raw root and fifth.

*repost*
Although I do have an idea of how they differentiate from one another, the differences structure and composition I have some trouble putting into words. Think you could help me there?

Yeah I saw that earlier, just didn't know how to explain it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBhwPLmQqbg&feature=related

All music is based on some form or other of chord progressions. For example, the chorus to Time What is Time is a progression. Listen to how the overall tonality shifts during that part. Riffs though are short, repeated passages - like that acoustic intro or really most of the song.

Not exactly true. I find it difficult to believe that a percussion piece follows a chord progression.
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PostSubject: Re: The Official Guitar Lessons/Music Theory Thread   Tue Sep 29, 2009 4:14 pm

Monk: Close to being true. I don't have the theory terminology, but chord formations have to be within the same scale (?) so as to work without sounding off. A chord progression is thus in some way built around these scales, as are most riffs.

Ok, that made no sense. Wheres that one-inch-eight-wanged wanker when you need him? Mad
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