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Rosalind
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Illegal Filesharing Vide
PostSubject: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySat Nov 14, 2009 9:43 pm

Alright, so I've become intrigued by this again today. I think most of us are pretty much on a similar page anyway, I thought it could be an interesting rejuvenation for this forum.

Opening with my own view, I download (though I reckon at least half of it will be deleted with a listen or two), and attempt to buy the albums I enjoy regularly. To back this up with some statistics, up until the age of 18 I had accumulated roughly 50 CDs, and been to a handful (under half a dozen) shows. That figure is now at ~200 CDs and 24 shows since (going by the tickets I still have) just three years on. That's a four-fold increase in the space of three years, which coincidentally is about the time I began exploring the wealth of music available over the internet. My income during this time remained more or less the same as it was before and was unlikely to be a limiting factor, so my main conclusion is that due to the availability of music from lesser known artists, I became more inclined to want to support music that caters to my taste, to keep them producing music.

I suppose another point is that of the blog, where most of the reviews posted come with a link for the music. I've explained my rationale for downloading myself, but too have a justification for this; I don't review the 'big' bands, and never have. Why would I when you can't walk down the street without hearing their name, where their entire album is on the end of multiple youtube links and every moronic teenager has something to say about it. Why would I mention an artist that is already well known and people are capable of simply making their own decision. Then all I'm doing is supplying others with music they don't wish to pay for. Instead I view it as a means of publicity, of helping others explore as I did, raising awareness of artists that perhaps would all too easily slip under the radar. People wont find my reviews by looking for big name artists, but if they're looking for it, perhaps they'll become exposed to something new, and I'd hope that - like myself - they would wish to support the artists they enjoy. But perhaps this is wishful thinking, and some artists (and reviewers) have requested links be removed and I have removed them no questions asked, and others seem to share my opinion on the matter.

Irrespective of this argument, the market has changed and will continue to shift, but rather than adapt the music industry seems hell-bent on increasing regulations rather than creating viable solutions. I applaud the idea of 'Spotify,' which rather than try to prevent people listening to music, makes it easier! Allowing a single program with a large cache to allow users to rapidly stream content with potentially near enough every song you could want, as many times as you want, but not allow it to be downloaded is a prime example of a business model set to tackle the changing demands of the current consumer market. Except the same legislation used to make 'illegal' copying of cassette tapes now applies here, and so many labels have opted to have all their music pulled from the program, severely lowering the number of tracks available. Compared to file-sharing, it is simply not yet a viable solution. In an industry dominated by large corporations it is the artist that suffers, particularly the smaller labels. I've read the argument that file-sharing hurts smaller labels more than large ones, but I disagree; the smaller labels are now capable of reaching a far wider audience than they ever would have before, of allowing their musicians to be heard, giving them a voice - if only an online one - which can surely only serve to encourage popular opinion of talent, of personal preferences as a greater variety of styles becomes only a few clicks away. Surely a consumer market controlled by the consumer is beneficial to the industry as a whole, as compared to the current system dominated by the critics who determine an artists publicisation, and hence popularity and economic success.

An interesting vid around this:


But perhaps what interested me more is that whilst we often hear of this situation occurring with music, what of other media? There are restrictions on video piracy of course - but we hear little about that - and another interesting article based upon manga piracy (here). This ties into the notion of 'remix culture' (assuming you watched the vid), and if you're too lazy to read the article i'll surmise it. Essentially, despite large success of manga and animé in the US in particular, and following suit in Europe now (I'll let Ricard rant about Otaku's), Japan is moving in a different direction; at the forefront of technology, the focus on manga has moved onto animé and televisual sources. The amount of manga being produced is steadily falling, becoming more of a niche market, but the animé is more often than not based on manga. Dragonball Z, Naruto and Bleach for example, all began as comics. Eventually the sources will run dry and the infrastructure may collapse, but the declining number of manga fans has already seen something of an uprising with a dramatic increase in 'dojinshi,' essentially the manga equivalent of fanfic, which since is rather blatantly based on pre-existing characters is subject to copyright restrictions (illegal).

And there was a big rumble about it initially, but eventually the publishers realised that as this activity increased, so did in fact their own sales. This trend was actually starting to revive interest in the official publications, something I expect would be true of the music industry as well. Many figures of "how much was lost" due to piracy doesn't factor how many would otherwise have bought the album given no alternative, assuming they would. Maybe my view's become slightly warped, but it's interesting to observe how its the most devoted enthusiasts who seem willing to do anything to preserve their medium, even if it breaks the law.

Hmm...I hadn't actually intended to write an essay >.<
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Ahmedeus
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySat Nov 14, 2009 10:11 pm

I download music [for free] because I am broke most of the time. Why should money come in between me and a band I love? Forget "stealing" and "piracy" for a moment. Would a band rather have many fans or a few rich fans?

Even if I bought CDs, I would have to rip them into my computer, (time consuming), and then convert them into MP3s if I want to listen to it on my MP3 player (even more time consuming).

I represent the people who genuinely love music but are lazy and would rather spend their money elsewhere. Music buyers are the cause of the piracy problem. They are the ones who buy CDs and upload them on the internet Very Happy
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Rosalind
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Illegal Filesharing Vide
PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySat Nov 14, 2009 10:27 pm

Ahmedeus wrote:
I download music [for free] because I am broke most of the time. Why should money come in between me and a band I love? Forget "stealing" and "piracy" for a moment. Would a band rather have many fans or a few rich fans?

Even if I bought CDs, I would have to rip them into my computer, (time consuming), and then convert them into MP3s if I want to listen to it on my MP3 player (even more time consuming).

I represent the people who genuinely love music but are lazy and would rather spend their money elsewhere. Music buyers are the cause of the piracy problem. They are the ones who buy CDs and upload them on the internet Very Happy

I think a band would like to be able to make enough to earn a comfortable wage from doing what they enjoy. You don't need to be rich to afford $10 for an album. As for ripping it takes me about a minute to rip a CD to .mp3 files. One button in WMP. Not that I really consider that the issue. I want the artist to keep making music, and I actually like having the physical copy; observing the artwork, reading the notes and lyrics and so on. Having no income is one thing, but justifying it by simply saying you don't want to support them just seems backhanded to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySat Nov 14, 2009 11:27 pm

Quote :
I don't review the 'big' bands, and never have.

Miley Cyrus Razz

I almost completely agree, Thomas. Remember, there are more ways to support a band than to just buy their music. Of course you buy it as much as you can but let's be realistic - these underground raw bestial nuclear war black metal bands and symphonic neo-progressive rock bands aren't in it for the money. They're in it for the music. And as a musician, it would mean SO much more to me to type in my band's name on Google or something and see endless praise and fappage from musical elitists, no less. I would much rather have people all over the world praising my band's name than to be just another major-label act that is forced to make generic music for the masses and then get slammed by bullshit publication like Rolling Stone.

What we do here on Lifer is great - we're giving the bands wide names and lots of new audiences. I do the same on a few other music forums I frequent as well as with my friends in real life. THAT is truly supporting the band - supporting the music. Unfortunately, very very very few people who download do this.
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Silchias Ruin
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 12:07 am

For me it is fairly easy, before the internet explosion, I went to CD stores and listened to albums, I bought the ones I liked. Or I go to the library and just pick shit at random, and see if I like it, then buy it.

If I have access to the album I will buy it, but Calgary / Edmonton have really shitty music stores for the most part, and HMV will rape me for bringing in an import album, for instance I was going to get a Three 6 Mafia album for my brother, and it would cost $45-60, and they are fairly well known, and that is just from the US.

I don't want to imagine what it would cost me to get an album from Norway, and why would I pay that much without listening to it ? The music stores here aren't going to import it just so I can listen to it.

So I download it, without any real remorse, because I know if it is good I will buy it.
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Peter
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 5:26 am

I think this is an interesting matter. At first when I joined lifer didn't like downloader music one bit, not so much the "you're stealing from the artist/record label" more the fact that I didn't feel like I earned it. Then I felt like it was okay if it only was weird obscure metal I downloaded, becuase I couldn't but it in normal stoes.
Now I download what I want, mostly because of the "money/how the fuck do I get this ?" problem. I try to buy the albums I really like and the more obscure the bands are the important it is to buy them.

Maybe in the future music will be free and going on concerts will be the main thing for bands to make money off.
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Rosalind
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 7:13 am

Ricard: That was a one-off Razz I have one planned for a demo of a ska band that never got big. Only 50 copies of their demo got made.

*Pats his copy*

There are other ways to support the artist - merch and shows aside - as you said, by raising awareness. That's where the internet comes in handy. You think I would discover a fraction of the artists buying albums through pot-luck? I have bought albums going cheap from eBay with some success - Darksky is a prog band I fap a fair bit, discovered from a random purchase, but on the other side Groundrule ended up being so bad it was like having rusty nails driven into your ear - but its not really a viable option, and at the end of the day the musician's aim is to turn a hobby into a career, which they'll need financial support to achieve.

Dobson: I dont think it matters where you are tbh, most places are scarce of harder to find albums (except apparently, when John visits Jo and finds a store to spend $1000 in Illegal Filesharing 147871. I don't even bother looking anywhere but online any more - I expect when I find work, a good chunk of that first pay will go on orders at "Underground Symphony," and "Ascendance Records," who both stock a number of albums i've been after for a while. I have a list of 60 albums slowly collecting up on my amazon as well, but importing will almost always be a bitch.

Peter: Through eBay, distro's and amazon, you can find almost every album. And if that fails, you can often contact the artist themselves who usually stock a few copies and are more than willing to mail you one. The difficulty shouldn't be in actually finding it, but rather the price; these boards know I love Hizaki Grace Project, but the only place I've seen it on sale is eBay for £50, which is far more than I'm willing to part with for an EP no less.

I think the idea of free music and concerts only is a horrendous idea. It would mean drastically increasing the cost, and many artists will only be able to tour a limited amount of the country/continent due to lack of initial funds. It could also mean the death of the likes of prog metal, which generally doesn't bode well in a live atmosphere as much as when recorded, compared to an increase in punk and thrash. The way technology is going is - hopefully - towards promoting a larger number of smaller labels, rather than the monolithic bloodsuckers we're stuck with now.
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Peter
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 7:35 am

Rosalind wrote:


Peter: Through eBay, distro's and amazon, you can find almost every album. And if that fails, you can often contact the artist themselves who usually stock a few copies and are more than willing to mail you one. The difficulty shouldn't be in actually finding it, but rather the price; these boards know I love Hizaki Grace Project, but the only place I've seen it on sale is eBay for £50, which is far more than I'm willing to part with for an EP no less.

I think the idea of free music and concerts only is a horrendous idea. It would mean drastically increasing the cost, and many artists will only be able to tour a limited amount of the country/continent due to lack of initial funds. It could also mean the death of the likes of prog metal, which generally doesn't bode well in a live atmosphere as much as when recorded, compared to an increase in punk and thrash. The way technology is going is - hopefully - towards promoting a larger number of smaller labels, rather than the monolithic bloodsuckers we're stuck with now.

Looked on amazon, you'rw right. Gotta start ordering large amonts of music from there instead of buying a few albums every now and then in stores. The price remark was true too, some of the albums are way too expensive.
The part with genres dying out because of concerts is also probably true, never really thought of that.

There isn't much difference in prices on cds imo. They all seem to cost between 50 (only old shit cost so little)-150 DKK (only new shit cost so much), think it would be equivalent to 5£-15£ (not in value, in Denmark everything costs more, than in other countries). Does that mean smaller labels charge the same for cd's, or do they take advantage of the bigger labels setting the price bar way too high, or does it mean little labels doesn't show in normal stores ? How much does an artist make pr. cd ? 20-30% of it's price or something like that ?

On a sidenote, I once saw a punk cd in stores with a note on the cover saying: "If this cd costs more than 50 DKK you're supporting some capitalistic bastards". I didn't Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 8:02 am

Peter wrote:
Rosalind wrote:


Peter: Through eBay, distro's and amazon, you can find almost every album. And if that fails, you can often contact the artist themselves who usually stock a few copies and are more than willing to mail you one. The difficulty shouldn't be in actually finding it, but rather the price; these boards know I love Hizaki Grace Project, but the only place I've seen it on sale is eBay for £50, which is far more than I'm willing to part with for an EP no less.

I think the idea of free music and concerts only is a horrendous idea. It would mean drastically increasing the cost, and many artists will only be able to tour a limited amount of the country/continent due to lack of initial funds. It could also mean the death of the likes of prog metal, which generally doesn't bode well in a live atmosphere as much as when recorded, compared to an increase in punk and thrash. The way technology is going is - hopefully - towards promoting a larger number of smaller labels, rather than the monolithic bloodsuckers we're stuck with now.

Looked on amazon, you'rw right. Gotta start ordering large amonts of music from there instead of buying a few albums every now and then in stores. The price remark was true too, some of the albums are way too expensive.
The part with genres dying out because of concerts is also probably true, never really thought of that.

There isn't much difference in prices on cds imo. They all seem to cost between 50 (only old shit cost so little)-150 DKK (only new shit cost so much), think it would be equivalent to 5£-15£ (not in value, in Denmark everything costs more, than in other countries). Does that mean smaller labels charge the same for cd's, or do they take advantage of the bigger labels setting the price bar way too high, or does it mean little labels doesn't show in normal stores ? How much does an artist make pr. cd ? 20-30% of it's price or something like that ?

On a sidenote, I once saw a punk cd in stores with a note on the cover saying: "If this cd costs more than 50 DKK you're supporting some capitalistic bastards". I didn't Very Happy

It really depends. I watched this interview with a punk rocker (I cant remember who) - he handles all the production himself, but hires session musicians to help in the studio - and he said the album itself cost £40,000 to record, plus three months of his time, which he isn't of course getting paid for. He needs to charge enough to recoup that cost ideally. At £10 an album, thats 4,000 copies he needs to sell. If you look at #1 figures for the album charts, some of those are only around 40,000 albums at their peak week. Those are the huge pop bands, for small bands 4,000 is a LOT, and most need to work part-time. To-Mera I know for a fact still have day jobs as they can't support themselves, and I've heard Converge all did too.

There's another debate on this topic, but actually they make very little most of the time. Because the label essentially foots the bill to record it, they take the vast majority to recoup the costs, but if they don't recoup the costs, why would the pay to let the band record another album? The great thing about the way technology is going is that its encouraging amateur production - getting the artists to do it all themselves. This effectively cuts out the labels entirely, and we see things like distro's emerge, buying in bulk from artists to sell from their online store (e.g. NWN). Larger labels take more to cover expensive fees to producers, advertisers, marketeers and a whole massive team of people devoted to helping the band. Small labels don't have anywhere near this capacity - you might get someone to help produce it, and maybe get the frontpage of their site for a while - but as a result the artist gets a fairer share of the proceeds.

What is new to me is that people have always said that small bands make more from touring, which actually isn't always true. I was talking to a guitarist from the band 'Neonfly,' who had essentially organised the gig I went to. He needed 120 people to attend to break even. Luckily the figure was about 200, so he made a total profit of £800 for that gig. Split that between the four members, that's £200 a piece. That isn't actually a lot. Especially if you then deduct travel expenses - a US tour for a European band would cost £500 in flights per member alone - its still nowhere near enough to support yourself financially. For a standard 18K salary, ignoring other expenses, you'd need to have the same success 90 times a year. 180 times if you spend the following year actually writing and recording the album. And thats assuming you have a label willing to pay to record it.

Its very difficult.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 8:05 am

One question before I get to topic; why the hell is this page so wide open Bawden tongue ? It's pretty annoying to scroll right and left again to read what you've guys wrote. tongue

On topic, most of what Alex said, and some of what Ahmed did; around here the only place I can actually find an artist's Cd - and usually a generic artist- is Virgin Mega stores which naturally I cant afford to purchase. As for Amazon and Ebay, there's the trouble of sending the cd's half way accross the world, and again, the money. So, I wont let money get in the way of my love for music. Besides, let's be real; you buy cd's when you can afford to, also people with steady wages probably buy cd's more than you do, bet let's get real, how much cd's can you eventually have ? 1000, 2000 ? Surely that's not even third of the music you have/like on your pc, so buying can only you take you so far. Besides, as Ricard said here we truely support underground artists and expose them into other's eyes, so if buying their music is supporting, then this by far is also supporting them.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 8:21 am

Mostafa wrote:
One question before I get to topic; why the hell is this page so wide open Bawden tongue ? It's pretty annoying to scroll right and left again to read what you've guys wrote. tongue

On topic, most of what Alex said, and some of what Ahmed did; around here the only place I can actually find an artist's Cd - and usually a generic artist- is Virgin Mega stores which naturally I cant afford to purchase. As for Amazon and Ebay, there's the trouble of sending the cd's half way accross the world, and again, the money. So, I wont let money get in the way of my love for music. Besides, let's be real; you buy cd's when you can afford to, also people with steady wages probably buy cd's more than you do, bet let's get real, how much cd's can you eventually have ? 1000, 2000 ? Surely that's not even third of the music you have/like on your pc, so buying can only you take you so far. Besides, as Ricard said here we truely support underground artists and expose them into other's eyes, so if buying their music is supporting, then this by far is also supporting them.

Displays fine for me. Maybe its your resolution? (It should display fine on a 1024x768 resolution, which is what it was designed for). Either that, or something on the page isn't displaying correctly, forcing the page to adjust. It happens when someone posts a large image, or has too wide a signature/avatar for example.

I know your point though, without trying to put it offensively, your postage system and legal restrictions on imported goods sucks huge ass, as does many countries outside of the western hemisphere (it took 2 months to get a package mailed to me from Israel, yet only a week to get one from Japan Illegal Filesharing 147871). Money will always be an issue, particularly for the majority of us poor bastards here, but that's not a permanent justification for it. Have you seen John's basement? He needs an entire room for his damn collection, and I've bought over 150 in 3 years on a student frickin' income, so yeah, it is possible to have a huge collection. The more music you listen to, the larger it'll grow to. Its an understandable explanation, and not one I even disagree with. Its simply, the way Ali put it: "There's other places I'd rather spend my money." That's not taking into account your financial situation, its just rather bluntly saying "I like your music but refuse to support you financially in creating it," which to me sounds odd. Raising awareness is one way to support an artist, but like I said above, at the end of the day they ought to make some money off of it too.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 9:30 am

Mostafa wrote:
One question before I get to topic; why the hell is this page so wide open Bawden tongue ? It's pretty annoying to scroll right and left again to read what you've guys wrote. tongue


I find that Thomas' signature is slightly wider than my screen, so there's some scrolling for me too.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 9:59 am

Ziegenbartami wrote:
Mostafa wrote:
One question before I get to topic; why the hell is this page so wide open Bawden tongue ? It's pretty annoying to scroll right and left again to read what you've guys wrote. tongue


I find that Thomas' signature is slightly wider than my screen, so there's some scrolling for me too.

How much wider? And what resolution are you using?
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:32 am

Rosalind wrote:


Dobson: I dont think it matters where you are tbh, most places are scarce of harder to find albums (except apparently, when John visits Jo and finds a store to spend $1000 in Illegal Filesharing 147871. I don't even bother looking anywhere but online any more - I expect when I find work, a good chunk of that first pay will go on orders at "Underground Symphony," and "Ascendance Records," who both stock a number of albums i've been after for a while. I have a list of 60 albums slowly collecting up on my amazon as well, but importing will almost always be a bitch.

Oh I have no problem buying things once I want to buy them, but I'm not going to take the shot in the dark approach, and buy an album then find out it sucks. For me downloading works like a very individualized radio where I can preview what I like and chuck the rest. My preference is to buy albums at concerts, which is how I got most of my CD's.

I find that metal/punk fans actually (% wise) support their bands the most, most people I know who like top 40 never buy an album, just listen to the radio, and rarely go to concerts, or download just the songs they like and say ftw to the rest.

The way I see it is download the album, and if you like it buy it, there is really no excuses anymore you can get the albums and get them cheap(ish) except in a few rare circumstances, if you don't like it delete it. Go to concerts, support the bands. Of course it ultimately every person makes their own choices in this regard
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:35 am

Rosalind wrote:


How much wider? And what resolution are you using?

1024x768, and it's not much wider, usually I can still read everything without scrolling.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:41 am

Ziegenbartami wrote:
Rosalind wrote:


How much wider? And what resolution are you using?

1024x768, and it's not much wider, usually I can still read everything without scrolling.

Yeah I'm having no problem in this regards, I only come across it when people get fancy with posting multiple youtube links in one post.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:49 am

Ziegenbartami wrote:
Rosalind wrote:


How much wider? And what resolution are you using?

1024x768, and it's not much wider, usually I can still read everything without scrolling.

Thats the same as me. I think thats a slight issue with the avatars tbh; if its larger than your 'post rank' then its too wide. I can correct most that I see in a few moments so help myself, and I haven't had any complaints about it.

Dobson: I dont think its actually most "music fans" who are willing to support the artists; I don't mean those who listen to whats delivered to them on a platter, but the actual music fanatics who actively explore beyond what's made readily available. Also, im not sure what you consider cheap but a lot of the albums I look up cost around £15 new (I have got a fair number of used CDs, mostly from other private collectors who played it once or twice, didn't like it and sold it off), but largely feel the same about the reason for downloading initially.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 3:34 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Mostafa wrote:
One question before I get to topic; why the hell is this page so wide open Bawden tongue ? It's pretty annoying to scroll right and left again to read what you've guys wrote. tongue

On topic, most of what Alex said, and some of what Ahmed did; around here the only place I can actually find an artist's Cd - and usually a generic artist- is Virgin Mega stores which naturally I cant afford to purchase. As for Amazon and Ebay, there's the trouble of sending the cd's half way accross the world, and again, the money. So, I wont let money get in the way of my love for music. Besides, let's be real; you buy cd's when you can afford to, also people with steady wages probably buy cd's more than you do, bet let's get real, how much cd's can you eventually have ? 1000, 2000 ? Surely that's not even third of the music you have/like on your pc, so buying can only you take you so far. Besides, as Ricard said here we truely support underground artists and expose them into other's eyes, so if buying their music is supporting, then this by far is also supporting them.

Displays fine for me. Maybe its your resolution? (It should display fine on a 1024x768 resolution, which is what it was designed for). Either that, or something on the page isn't displaying correctly, forcing the page to adjust. It happens when someone posts a large image, or has too wide a signature/avatar for example.

I know your point though, without trying to put it offensively, your postage system and legal restrictions on imported goods sucks huge ass, as does many countries outside of the western hemisphere (it took 2 months to get a package mailed to me from Israel, yet only a week to get one from Japan Illegal Filesharing 147871). Money will always be an issue, particularly for the majority of us poor bastards here, but that's not a permanent justification for it. Have you seen John's basement? He needs an entire room for his damn collection, and I've bought over 150 in 3 years on a student frickin' income, so yeah, it is possible to have a huge collection. The more music you listen to, the larger it'll grow to. Its an understandable explanation, and not one I even disagree with. Its simply, the way Ali put it: "There's other places I'd rather spend my money." That's not taking into account your financial situation, its just rather bluntly saying "I like your music but refuse to support you financially in creating it," which to me sounds odd. Raising awareness is one way to support an artist, but like I said above, at the end of the day they ought to make some money off of it too.

I think it's that big ass URL you posted; because it's fine on page 2 of this thread.

Agreed, But then again they'd have to join a big record label to get their stuff sold and hence; get paid, I mean, can you honestly tell me an underground band can get any money of their record like any other band signed to a decent record label ? So, yeah, record labels are also to blame in this subject, big ones sign in the easy on the mainstream ear, reject the actually decent musicians, not to turn this into another record label thread. tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 3:51 pm

Mostafa: Go into preferences and allow HTML to display, that long url was an embedded video.

"they'd have to join a big record label to get their stuff sold"

Of course they don't. They wont sell as many, but they'd probably get more from each they do sell with a small label. Labels aren't some evil entity, but they are a business, and like all businesses aim to turn a profit. Perhaps they take more than they should, forcing the costs to rise more, but with more small labels emerging, they can compete by lowering prices, eventually forcing larger entities to do the same to remain competitive. And don't forget, without them the vast majority of musicians could never afford to professionally record an album.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 9:14 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Ziegenbartami wrote:
Rosalind wrote:


How much wider? And what resolution are you using?

1024x768, and it's not much wider, usually I can still read everything without scrolling.

Thats the same as me. I think thats a slight issue with the avatars tbh; if its larger than your 'post rank' then its too wide. I can correct most that I see in a few moments so help myself, and I haven't had any complaints about it.

Dobson: I dont think its actually most "music fans" who are willing to support the artists; I don't mean those who listen to whats delivered to them on a platter, but the actual music fanatics who actively explore beyond what's made readily available. Also, im not sure what you consider cheap but a lot of the albums I look up cost around £15 new (I have got a fair number of used CDs, mostly from other private collectors who played it once or twice, didn't like it and sold it off), but largely feel the same about the reason for downloading initially.

Most albums I've bought are considerably cheaper than that, but I think you have more obscure tastes than I do for the most part. Most of the ones I've bought (Savatage, Atheist, Death etc) aren't that obscure so I think that's why I've found them cheaper ($10 - 20 Canadian, before shipping).
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 9:37 pm

Stealing is stealing. Justify it however you like. Music is not a right nor does it sustain life. The "I don't have the money excuse" is no excuse at all. I can't afford a Lamborgini. So should I just keep stealing them until I earn enough to buy one of my own? Will that justify my crime? I am not sure what there is to debate. We who download for free are stealing, period. There is no excuse in the world that will change that fact. Whether I download albums for free, put up links to albums I have on my mediafire account, or make CD's for my friends, it is all part of stealing.

@ Ahmed
I recently got 4 CD's in the mail. I uploaded them to my computer, labeled them how I wanted in I-Tunes and up loaded them to my Ipod. In total in took me 25=30 minutes at the most. So time consuming is not a valid excuse either.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 9:56 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Stealing is stealing. Justify it however you like. Music is not a right nor does it sustain life. The "I don't have the money excuse" is no excuse at all. I can't afford a Lamborgini. So should I just keep stealing them until I earn enough to buy one of my own? Will that justify my crime? I am not sure what there is to debate. We who download for free are stealing, period. There is no excuse in the world that will change that fact. Whether I download albums for free, put up links to albums I have on my mediafire account, or make CD's for my friends, it is all part of stealing.

@ Ahmed
I recently got 4 CD's in the mail. I uploaded them to my computer, labeled them how I wanted in I-Tunes and up loaded them to my Ipod. In total in took me 25=30 minutes at the most. So time consuming is not a valid excuse either.
I disagree with the money issue being invalid. As an unemployed teenager I have hardly any income so I have to download most of my music. I don't think stealing a car is the same as music. By downloading music you can spread the word about these bands so they get more fans and in turn will get more revenue. The same isn't true for stealing a car.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:10 pm

You wouldn't download a car.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:12 pm

Adothorr wrote:

I disagree with the money issue being invalid. As an unemployed teenager I have hardly any income so I have to download most of my music. I don't think stealing a car is the same as music. By downloading music you can spread the word about these bands so they get more fans and in turn will get more revenue. The same isn't true for stealing a car.

When I was an unemployed teenager I too was unable to get all the music I wanted. But as I said. Getting music is not a right. So not being able to afford it is not a valid excuse. It is just the most popular one. It is the one I use. There is no doubt that the internet(which I have had since 2000) has helped in the expansion of my tastes and knowledge of bands. But it is still stealing.

So you steal the music. Tell a friend and they too steal the music. Then you go to the show and support the band. But you still stole there album. If I steal a car and sell the car and teach my friends how to do the same. Then save that money to buy a car. It does not forgive the fact that you stole the other cars. Understand. I have no problem with downloading for free, and I LOVE making free CD's with new music for friends. But it doesn't make it right. The reason we all do it is because it is free and the chances of getting caught are minimal at best. These are the reasons why. The rest are just excuses.


Remember. I DOWNLOAD TOO. So i am not on a soap box here. I am just being honest about what we do.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:14 pm

Nautilus wrote:
You wouldn't download a car.
No. But like music. They are stolen all the time.
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