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Silchias Ruin
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:18 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Stealing is stealing. Justify it however you like. Music is not a right nor does it sustain life. The "I don't have the money excuse" is no excuse at all. I can't afford a Lamborgini. So should I just keep stealing them until I earn enough to buy one of my own? Will that justify my crime? I am not sure what there is to debate. We who download for free are stealing, period. There is no excuse in the world that will change that fact. Whether I download albums for free, put up links to albums I have on my mediafire account, or make CD's for my friends, it is all part of stealing.

@ Ahmed
I recently got 4 CD's in the mail. I uploaded them to my computer, labeled them how I wanted in I-Tunes and up loaded them to my Ipod. In total in took me 25=30 minutes at the most. So time consuming is not a valid excuse either.

Is it stealing if you download the album, and then buy it later?
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:21 pm

I will also say this. As we have seen. If caught the R.I.A.A. will prosecute. Do you think telling the judge, "I couldn't afford it" or, "I was just spreading the word of Toner Low." will get you off the hook? Do you think the judge will say, "OH! Well in that case." or, "Fuck yeah! Toner Low is highly underrated and need more exposure." No. So I say again. They are all just excuses used to justify stealing. Nothing more.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:25 pm

Silchias Ruin wrote:
AarO)))n wrote:
Stealing is stealing. Justify it however you like. Music is not a right nor does it sustain life. The "I don't have the money excuse" is no excuse at all. I can't afford a Lamborgini. So should I just keep stealing them until I earn enough to buy one of my own? Will that justify my crime? I am not sure what there is to debate. We who download for free are stealing, period. There is no excuse in the world that will change that fact. Whether I download albums for free, put up links to albums I have on my mediafire account, or make CD's for my friends, it is all part of stealing.

@ Ahmed
I recently got 4 CD's in the mail. I uploaded them to my computer, labeled them how I wanted in I-Tunes and up loaded them to my Ipod. In total in took me 25=30 minutes at the most. So time consuming is not a valid excuse either.

Is it stealing if you download the album, and then buy it later?

Yes. Is it stealing if I steal a loaf of bread like it and then buy another one? Yes. Even if you go back and payed for the one you stole. You still stole it. Even buying it later does not take away from the physical act of stealing it to begin with. Though buying it later brings it down a few degrees.

When I buy what I have downloaded I always erase the downloaded one on my computer and replace it with the one I bought.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptySun Nov 15, 2009 10:56 pm

People are comparing music to the wrong kind of goods, I can't remember the correct terms right now, but lets go with excludable and non-excludable goods. Bread is an excludable good, a car is an exludable good, etc. By using it I prevent someone else from using it.

Music isn't an excludable good, I don't prevent others from "using" it, by using it myself. So really I do no harm by listening to it before I buy it, as long as I buy it. Are people stealing when they listen to the radio instead of buying the album? No. If I download an album and listen to it, what is the real difference between that and listening to the radio?

That is how you sell your music, people listen to it, and if they like it they buy it. It's not the same as other goods, if you eat bread, no one else can eat it, if you drive a car, you put wear on it, even if someone else uses it later. Music has none of these properties.

I think there is a temporal aspect to music theft, if you don't buy it within a certain period of time I would start looking at it as stealing. Of course in the eyes of the law it's stealing once I download it, all though in a few articles I've read it's not even downloading that is illegal in the eyes of the law, but the sharing that is illegal. Don't know how universal that perspective is though....
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 4:25 am

Adothorr wrote:
AarO)))n wrote:
Stealing is stealing. Justify it however you like. Music is not a right nor does it sustain life. The "I don't have the money excuse" is no excuse at all. I can't afford a Lamborgini. So should I just keep stealing them until I earn enough to buy one of my own? Will that justify my crime? I am not sure what there is to debate. We who download for free are stealing, period. There is no excuse in the world that will change that fact. Whether I download albums for free, put up links to albums I have on my mediafire account, or make CD's for my friends, it is all part of stealing.

@ Ahmed
I recently got 4 CD's in the mail. I uploaded them to my computer, labeled them how I wanted in I-Tunes and up loaded them to my Ipod. In total in took me 25=30 minutes at the most. So time consuming is not a valid excuse either.
I disagree with the money issue being invalid. As an unemployed teenager I have hardly any income so I have to download most of my music. I don't think stealing a car is the same as music. By downloading music you can spread the word about these bands so they get more fans and in turn will get more revenue. The same isn't true for stealing a car.

Having no money is an explanation, not a justification. As I said a few times earlier, spreading word of a band is one way of supporting them, but they wont be able to live off of compliments.

Aaron: Everyone's heard of tape trading back in the 80s; isn't this essentially the same thing? People could make copies of a tape and presto, you've suddenly got yourself a copy of your mates Death album. That too was stealing, yet it seems to be remembered as part of what happened. The mentality for me I dont think is too different from back then, its only the way its being done thats changed.

Dobson: Partly so, yeah. Most of the albums I've gotten I've scoured around looking for bargains, and most cost under £5 which gives me nothing to complain about, but theres many more I'll eventually have to pay full price for, if not an import fee as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 7:54 am

Silchias Ruin wrote:
People are comparing music to the wrong kind of goods, I can't remember the correct terms right now, but lets go with excludable and non-excludable goods. Bread is an excludable good, a car is an exludable good, etc. By using it I prevent someone else from using it.

Music isn't an excludable good, I don't prevent others from "using" it, by using it myself. So really I do no harm by listening to it before I buy it, as long as I buy it. Are people stealing when they listen to the radio instead of buying the album? No. If I download an album and listen to it, what is the real difference between that and listening to the radio?

That is how you sell your music, people listen to it, and if they like it they buy it. It's not the same as other goods, if you eat bread, no one else can eat it, if you drive a car, you put wear on it, even if someone else uses it later. Music has none of these properties.

I think there is a temporal aspect to music theft, if you don't buy it within a certain period of time I would start looking at it as stealing. Of course in the eyes of the law it's stealing once I download it, all though in a few articles I've read it's not even downloading that is illegal in the eyes of the law, but the sharing that is illegal. Don't know how universal that perspective is though....

Listening to it on the radio is not keeping it. So it is not stealing. Radio makes it's money off advertising to allow the listener to enjoy music on a song by song basis for free. Not entire albums recorded and sent to your house. One music is pressed onto a CD or Tape and sold it has become a product, one that the artist or the record company is hoping to make money off of. When it is stolen they do not. Hence stealing.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 8:06 am

Rosalind wrote:

Aaron: Everyone's heard of tape trading back in the 80s; isn't this essentially the same thing? People could make copies of a tape and presto, you've suddenly got yourself a copy of your mates Death album. That too was stealing, yet it seems to be remembered as part of what happened. The mentality for me I dont think is too different from back then, its only the way its being done thats changed.
So what is your point exactly? Is it, 'Well they have been doing it for years so what's the big deal?" It was stealing then and it is stealing now. Again I have no real moral problem with it. I don't feel the need to wrestle with it in my mind as to justify it so I can sleep at night. Though I will say this. Comparing tape trading in the late 80's to now is really apples and oranges. Or in this case, the pony express to high speed internet. Both are stealing but the rate of doing so has dramatically increased with the internet.

The way I see it is this. I steal albums and here is why. I can't get everything I want(though I will try my with all my might to with buying), I am tired of buying stuff that is not worth it(only to find that out after paying $12), and because I LOVE to hear new music. Now all of those are just excuses and in no way excuse what I am doing, stealing. But I also don't have a problem with it because in my lifetime I have owned well over 1000 CD's. I currently own over 500. So I have certainly paid my fair share in the way of buying music and supporting artists. Again, this does not excuse my stealing nor does it justify it. But it, along with the fact they are free and getting caught is slim to none, is why I download. Period.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 8:14 am

AarO)))n wrote:
Rosalind wrote:

Aaron: Everyone's heard of tape trading back in the 80s; isn't this essentially the same thing? People could make copies of a tape and presto, you've suddenly got yourself a copy of your mates Death album. That too was stealing, yet it seems to be remembered as part of what happened. The mentality for me I dont think is too different from back then, its only the way its being done thats changed.
So what is your point exactly? Is it, 'Well they have been doing it for years so what's the big deal?" It was stealing then and it is stealing now. Again I have no real moral problem with it. I don't feel the need to wrestle with it in my mind as to justify it so I can sleep at night. Though I will say this. Comparing tape trading in the late 80's to now is really apples and oranges. Or in this case, the pony express to high speed internet. Both are stealing but the rate of doing so has dramatically increased with the internet.

The way I see it is this. I steal albums and here is why. I can't get everything I want(though I will try my with all my might to with buying), I am tired of buying stuff that is not worth it(only to find that out after paying $12), and because I LOVE to hear new music. Now all of those are just excuses and in no way excuse what I am doing, stealing. But I also don't have a problem with it because in my lifetime I have owned well over 1000 CD's. I currently own over 500. So I have certainly paid my fair share in the way of buying music and supporting artists. Again, this does not excuse my stealing nor does it justify it. But it, along with the fact they are free and getting caught is slim to none, is why I download. Period.

One album or a hundred, the ethics are still the same. I wasn't making an accusation or trying to be malicious, but rather pointing out the irony of those who have lived through the tape trading days judging the internet piracy. In my mind there is no real distinction between the two, simply two methods for the same result. Both had the the same ethical dilemma, but tape trading didn't end the industry and neither will this.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 8:47 am

Rosalind wrote:

One album or a hundred, the ethics are still the same. I wasn't making an accusation or trying to be malicious, but rather pointing out the irony of those who have lived through the tape trading days judging the internet piracy. In my mind there is no real distinction between the two, simply two methods for the same result. Both had the the same ethical dilemma, but tape trading didn't end the industry and neither will this.
Agreed. I think most who were involved in the tape trading are not too upset with the internet thing. Unless you are this hypocritical asshole!
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Please understand everyone. I am not judging or am atop my high horse calling everyone out. I just find some of these excuses as to why we download full of shit. Just saying you steal because you can and want to. Because that is what we all do. Myself included.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 10:17 am

As a side note, I went back and looked at all my "wishful thinking" accounts - all my collective baskets from various labels and so on that have slowly accumulated as i've gone 'ooh I need to buy that when I can' from compulsive playing.

HMV.co.jp - 23,496yen, 11 items ($261/£156)
Underground Symphony - 134.88Euro, 12 items ($200/£120)
Amazon.co.uk - £167, 22 items ($278)

I believe profanity is appropriate right about now.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 2:22 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Silchias Ruin wrote:
People are comparing music to the wrong kind of goods, I can't remember the correct terms right now, but lets go with excludable and non-excludable goods. Bread is an excludable good, a car is an exludable good, etc. By using it I prevent someone else from using it.

Music isn't an excludable good, I don't prevent others from "using" it, by using it myself. So really I do no harm by listening to it before I buy it, as long as I buy it. Are people stealing when they listen to the radio instead of buying the album? No. If I download an album and listen to it, what is the real difference between that and listening to the radio?

That is how you sell your music, people listen to it, and if they like it they buy it. It's not the same as other goods, if you eat bread, no one else can eat it, if you drive a car, you put wear on it, even if someone else uses it later. Music has none of these properties.

I think there is a temporal aspect to music theft, if you don't buy it within a certain period of time I would start looking at it as stealing. Of course in the eyes of the law it's stealing once I download it, all though in a few articles I've read it's not even downloading that is illegal in the eyes of the law, but the sharing that is illegal. Don't know how universal that perspective is though....

Listening to it on the radio is not keeping it. So it is not stealing. Radio makes it's money off advertising to allow the listener to enjoy music on a song by song basis for free. Not entire albums recorded and sent to your house. One music is pressed onto a CD or Tape and sold it has become a product, one that the artist or the record company is hoping to make money off of. When it is stolen they do not. Hence stealing.

I didn't steal the CD though, they can still make money off of the CD they printed
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 2:28 pm

Silchias Ruin wrote:

I didn't steal the CD though, they can still make money off of the CD they printed
But not from you or anyone else that steals it. Did you buy the Cd for the packaging and the pictures? No. You bought it to have the music. In the end all the packaging means nothing. It is about the music, and you got that for free by stealing it. If you like it enough and can afford it you will buy it. But if not you don't. But you still stole it to begin with. You took something that is to be paid for with out paying right? So that is stealing. No matter how you slice it.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 2:34 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Silchias Ruin wrote:

I didn't steal the CD though, they can still make money off of the CD they printed
But not from you or anyone else that steals it. Did you buy the Cd for the packaging and the pictures? No. You bought it to have the music. In the end all the packaging means nothing. It is about the music, and you got that for free by stealing it. If you like it enough and can afford it you will buy it. But if not you don't. But you still stole it to begin with. You took something that is to be paid for with out paying right? So that is stealing. No matter how you slice it.

See this is where we differ, I could buy a digital copy of most of the albums I like, but I buy a CD for the liner notes etc.

Let me give a quick summary and then be done with this, I agree it is stealing. The thing is I would not buy a CD I haven't heard, period. By listening to it first I improve the artist/companies chance of selling the CD they created, because without DLing there would be no chance I would buy the album. DLing improves the chances of them selling a CD, especially for obscure bands. Without DLing what do you think the chances are of a independent Norwegian band selling a CD to someone in Calgary?
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 3:04 pm

Silchias Ruin wrote:

See this is where we differ, I could buy a digital copy of most of the albums I like, but I buy a CD for the liner notes etc.

I buy my albums for the whole package also. I have only digitally downloaded twice. this was because this was the only way to buy them. I digitally downloaded the last NIN album for free courtesy of Trent Reznor and then also bought it when they released it in store. So packaging means something to me also. But even if it came in a paper bag I would still buy it because in the end it is about the music. This (coupled the many reasons already given) is why people don't mind downloading. You wouldn't steal a car if it didn't run and you wouldn't steal bread if it had mold.
Quote :
Let me give a quick summary and then be done with this, I agree it is stealing. The thing is I would not buy a CD I haven't heard, period. By listening to it first I improve the artist/companies chance of selling the CD they created, because without DLing there would be no chance I would buy the album. DLing improves the chances of them selling a CD, especially for obscure bands. Without DLing what do you think the chances are of a independent Norwegian band selling a CD to someone in Calgary?
This is true. But there is a such thing as MySpace. Most every band has it. Listen to a few songs and if you like you buy. Stealing is not the only option. When I was your age there was no way to hear a band without buying or seeing them live, period. Yet people were still buying music and obscure bands before the internet, more than they do today I might add. The internet just gave them to you faster and free. Look in the end all this is is justifying stealing. Nothing more. Accept you steal their music and may buy it some day and move on. I have.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 8:33 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Silchias Ruin wrote:

See this is where we differ, I could buy a digital copy of most of the albums I like, but I buy a CD for the liner notes etc.

I buy my albums for the whole package also. I have only digitally downloaded twice. this was because this was the only way to buy them. I digitally downloaded the last NIN album for free courtesy of Trent Reznor and then also bought it when they released it in store. So packaging means something to me also. But even if it came in a paper bag I would still buy it because in the end it is about the music. This (coupled the many reasons already given) is why people don't mind downloading. You wouldn't steal a car if it didn't run and you wouldn't steal bread if it had mold.
Quote :
Let me give a quick summary and then be done with this, I agree it is stealing. The thing is I would not buy a CD I haven't heard, period. By listening to it first I improve the artist/companies chance of selling the CD they created, because without DLing there would be no chance I would buy the album. DLing improves the chances of them selling a CD, especially for obscure bands. Without DLing what do you think the chances are of a independent Norwegian band selling a CD to someone in Calgary?
This is true. But there is a such thing as MySpace. Most every band has it. Listen to a few songs and if you like you buy. Stealing is not the only option. When I was your age there was no way to hear a band without buying or seeing them live, period. Yet people were still buying music and obscure bands before the internet, more than they do today I might add. The internet just gave them to you faster and free. Look in the end all this is is justifying stealing. Nothing more. Accept you steal their music and may buy it some day and move on. I have.

I've bought way more than my fair share of obscure albums, from obscure bands that I've seen live, and I agree about myspace/youtube etc, but I prefer to download the album and hear it that way, so I steal the music.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 9:10 pm

Silchias Ruin wrote:

I've bought way more than my fair share of obscure albums, from obscure bands that I've seen live, and I agree about myspace/youtube etc, but I prefer to download the album and hear it that way, so I steal the music.
Me too. Honesty is the best policy. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyMon Nov 16, 2009 11:05 pm

AarO)))n wrote:

This is true. But there is a such thing as MySpace. Most every band has it. Listen to a few songs and if you like you buy. Stealing is not the only option. When I was your age there was no way to hear a band without buying or seeing them live, period. Yet people were still buying music and obscure bands before the internet, more than they do today I might add. The internet just gave them to you faster and free. Look in the end all this is is justifying stealing. Nothing more. Accept you steal their music and may buy it some day and move on. I have.

Uhhh, you may want to look at my age posted under my avatar. Or are you trying to tell me 4 years ago the internet didn't exist yet?
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 17, 2009 7:58 am

Silchias Ruin wrote:
AarO)))n wrote:

This is true. But there is a such thing as MySpace. Most every band has it. Listen to a few songs and if you like you buy. Stealing is not the only option. When I was your age there was no way to hear a band without buying or seeing them live, period. Yet people were still buying music and obscure bands before the internet, more than they do today I might add. The internet just gave them to you faster and free. Look in the end all this is is justifying stealing. Nothing more. Accept you steal their music and may buy it some day and move on. I have.

Uhhh, you may want to look at my age posted under my avatar. Or are you trying to tell me 4 years ago the internet didn't exist yet?

My apologies. I was mainly going for when you first get into metal. For me it was about 13 years of age. So when you were 13 the internet was just getting big(if my math is correct and it probably is not). Sorry, I get used to being one of the older Beard guys in here, and stupidly assumed you were among the young ones. Cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 17, 2009 11:48 am

Arrgh. It is NOT FUCKING STEALING! When I download a free album, it does not hurt the band. No money has been put into those Mp3s, only on physical CDs. You can make infinite amount of copies of Mp3s, they have no value. I am an invisible fan. Those who want to buy will buy. Invisibles do not affect a band in any way.

Did I buy their music? No. But something has to be taken from person B in order for it to be theft. I'm not claiming that their music is my property, I'm not breaking into stores and pocketing CDs, I'm not taking money from them. Therefore, it is not stealing or theft.

As far as law goes, it isn't/shouldn't be a crime. If it is a crime in your country/state, that law is not enforced, or we'd all be getting jailed or fined. And I don't know one person who has been.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 17, 2009 12:17 pm

Quote :
No money has been put into those Mp3s, only on physical CDs.

What about the cost of guitars, strings, amps, microphones, studio time, recording equipment?
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Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 17, 2009 12:20 pm

Ahmedeus wrote:
Arrgh. It is NOT FUCKING STEALING! When I download a free album, it does not hurt the band. No money has been put into those Mp3s, only on physical CDs. You can make infinite amount of copies of Mp3s, they have no value. I am an invisible fan. Those who want to buy will buy. Invisibles do not affect a band in any way.

Did I buy their music? No. But something has to be taken from person B in order for it to be theft. I'm not claiming that their music is my property, I'm not breaking into stores and pocketing CDs, I'm not taking money from them. Therefore, it is not stealing or theft.

As far as law goes, it isn't/shouldn't be a crime. If it is a crime in your country/state, that law is not enforced, or we'd all be getting jailed or fined. And I don't know one person who has been.

...You're kidding right?

The cost to make a physical CD - the CD box, actually copy the information, pay the artist for the artwork and print it - is almost negligible in the overall cost of production. We're talking 50p per CD maximum here. The money put into those files you conveniently copy from one place to another is the cost make that very first copy. If nobody buys the album, either the label will no longer keep the artist on board, forcing them to foot the bill themselves or (the more likely option) fold until a new label signs them. If the label keeps on enough unprofitable artists, the label will fold and even more artists will go under. And even if the artist does everything themselves, they wont make back the production costs making it VERY difficult to foot the bill themselves. I'd have thought of all people you'd have realised this, but let me put this in black and white: the cost of the recording studio, session musicians, producer, rental instruments/equipment, as well as the living costs; rent, food and so on. You think all that comes free?

"something has to be taken from person B in order for it to be theft."

Go look up copyright laws sometime. If you write and record a piece of music, it is legally yours. If someone acquires that recording without either payment or your express permission, it is theft. The same applies to software - about 75% of photoshop users have stolen it apparently - and films. You can argue ethics, try to rationalise it and even attempt to justify it, but it is a crime - irrespective of whether you agree or not - because it is theft. The law is not negotiable, and has been enforced. The will to enforce it isn't the problem, its the means. The sheer volume of users makes it almost impossible to enforce en masse.
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Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 17, 2009 12:28 pm

I agree that it's not, by pure definition, technically, "stealing" because you're not taking anything away. That still doesn't make it any better though. You're preventing sales.

I download and I know that's what I'm doing. There are certain bands I refuse to download for - to support them and because I want the album itself. And my wishlist is getting longer and longer, soon as I get a job I'll start buying again - I'm lazy (and poor) enough that I know if I download an album I'll be like "I'll get around to buying it... eventually" and just never do because I never have money and have such a long list. So I do self-police myself for certain bands and yeah, if I had the money I'd buy all the albums. But I'm perfectly willing to admit that I illegally download from bands.
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PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 17, 2009 12:28 pm

Ahmedeus wrote:
Arrgh. It is NOT FUCKING STEALING! When I download a free album, it does not hurt the band. No money has been put into those Mp3s, only on physical CDs. You can make infinite amount of copies of Mp3s, they have no value. I am an invisible fan. Those who want to buy will buy. Invisibles do not affect a band in any way.

Did I buy their music? No. But something has to be taken from person B in order for it to be theft. I'm not claiming that their music is my property, I'm not breaking into stores and pocketing CDs, I'm not taking money from them. Therefore, it is not stealing or theft.

As far as law goes, it isn't/shouldn't be a crime. If it is a crime in your country/state, that law is not enforced, or we'd all be getting jailed or fined. And I don't know one person who has been.
Did you pay for the music? NO! There fore it is stealing. Period end of story. The band or artist made a product that is to be sold for money. But you instead took it with out paying. That is stealing. The rest of your logic is semantics and bull shit to make you feel better about it and so that you can lay your head down on your pillow at night with a clear conscious. The CD costs $12. One person pays for it and 50 download it for free. How exactly are the record companies and artist not being stolen from exactly?

No you don't go into a store and steal it because your chances of getting caught are dramatically increased. So instead you take the easier way and steal it over the internet where no one will catch you, hopefully.

Of course you don't think it should be a crime. People who steal cars and money probably wish the same thing. The law is enforced.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9134582/Analysis_1.92M_fine_in_music_piracy_case_could_hurt_RIAA
It may not be done on a grand scale and it may not be you. But some are be prosecuted, and all your rhetoric and BS excuses will fall on deaf ears in court. They are the law and the enforcers of it. They say it is stealing. So if you are caught. Try telling them all that you have said and see how far that gets you. I bet the lady in the above story thought the same as you. Wonder how she feels about it now?

Remember. I DOWNLOAD TOO! I am not judging. But unlike you and so many more. I am willing to be honest about it. I STEAL MUSIC! If your conscious can't take that then you should stop or just keep lying to yourself. Either way you ARE stealing.
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Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 17, 2009 1:03 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Ahmedeus wrote:
I download music [for free] because I am broke most of the time. Why should money come in between me and a band I love? Forget "stealing" and "piracy" for a moment. Would a band rather have many fans or a few rich fans?

Even if I bought CDs, I would have to rip them into my computer, (time consuming), and then convert them into MP3s if I want to listen to it on my MP3 player (even more time consuming).

I represent the people who genuinely love music but are lazy and would rather spend their money elsewhere. Music buyers are the cause of the piracy problem. They are the ones who buy CDs and upload them on the internet Very Happy

I think a band would like to be able to make enough to earn a comfortable wage from doing what they enjoy. You don't need to be rich to afford $10 for an album. As for ripping it takes me about a minute to rip a CD to .mp3 files. One button in WMP. Not that I really consider that the issue. I want the artist to keep making music, and I actually like having the physical copy; observing the artwork, reading the notes and lyrics and so on. Having no income is one thing, but justifying it by simply saying you don't want to support them just seems backhanded to me.


You have 200 Cds, which means you've spent 2000 pounds or dollars if each album is for 10. What about John/Aaron and the others? They have literally thousands of albums. Just ask them. Add that up and you get a ridiculous amount of money (for me). You're saying I have to spent 10,000 bucks if I want to be a metalhead?

Sure, I feel like I owe the bands who produce the music I love, but I have other hobbies and responsibilities. Me being a fan should be enough.
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Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Illegal Filesharing   Illegal Filesharing - Page 2 EmptyTue Nov 17, 2009 1:13 pm

No, Aaron, you are refusing to see it any other way.

"How exactly are the record companies and artist not being stolen from exactly?"

Because their bank accounts remain the same.

Stealing is only stealing if it matters. I'm not guilty of anything. I don't need to clear my conscience. I'm just someone who doesn't believe money should matter when it comes to music. Whether it's my own or someone else's.
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