AarO)))n wrote:

Maybe. But if just stopping one war was the result. Would it not be worth it? But I agree. This is something that has no signs of ever happening. But that doesn't mean we should not try.

Not maybe, it would. Imagine the wars that would erupt if the entire population of the world was told they weren't allowed to follow their religion? And if we can ban beliefs, then we can ban anything. As an American, from the Land of the Free, I would've thought you would be opposed to this kind of action.

Quote :

Yes. But just because they are not doing it all the time is no reason not to stop them from doing it when they do. The same as not not stopping murder since we can't stop them all. If religion is tied to wars (as has been shown many times in here) then why not extract that from the equation and see what happens.

But you can't stop it "when they do". If you banned religion, you'd have to ban it for everyone. That's the hundreds of millions of people who aren't belligerent too. You can't take people's thoughts away, that's just insane, not to mention facist - something my country and yours fought against.

Quote :

Not simply throw our hands up and say, "It can't be done. So why try?"

I never said that. I said it wouldn't stop all the wars. It can be done, but it would be difficult, not to mention unethical, immoral and (as I said before) facist.

Religion does far more good, and has saved far more lives, than it has killed. Besides, suddenly ABOLISHING religion would create chaos, just like Bidders is saying. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is first and foremost about land and government. Most "holy wars" are using the pretext of religion for power and money. It is people doing this, not God doing this. Jesus proclaimed that all peoples - Jews AND Gentiles - had a part in the kingdom if they believed. Unlike the Jews who were based on lineage. The popes that started those wars were greedy, selfish hypocrites.

Thomas, evolution and creationism are in no way contradictory, and the "appendix" example - it used to have a purpose. Now it has fulfilled that purpose and is useless.

Geoff - the purpose of a missionary isn't just to teach though. They help feed and shelter orphans and people in third-world countries. They don't do it of some sick desire to try to brainwash people or anything. They're trying to help. They're putting their own lives at risk and giving their all to help the unluckiest people in the world. And I'd imagine a really, really great way to help people is to gather them in and for the first time in their lives teach them to read and give them hot food and tell them that one day they'll be in heaven.

Fuck Aaron, you've got a lot of posts.

Nautilus wrote:

Religion does far more good, and has saved far more lives, than it has killed. Besides, suddenly ABOLISHING religion would create chaos, just like Bidders is saying. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is first and foremost about land and government. Most "holy wars" are using the pretext of religion for power and money. It is people doing this, not God doing this. Jesus proclaimed that all peoples - Jews AND Gentiles - had a part in the kingdom if they believed. Unlike the Jews who were based on lineage. The popes that started those wars were greedy, selfish hypocrites.

Thomas, evolution and creationism are in no way contradictory, and the "appendix" example - it used to have a purpose. Now it has fulfilled that purpose and is useless.

Geoff - the purpose of a missionary isn't just to teach though. They help feed and shelter orphans and people in third-world countries. They don't do it of some sick desire to try to brainwash people or anything. They're trying to help. They're putting their own lives at risk and giving their all to help the unluckiest people in the world. And I'd imagine a really, really great way to help people is to gather them in and for the first time in their lives teach them to read and give them hot food and tell them that one day they'll be in heaven.

Fuck Aaron, you've got a lot of posts.

Explain to me how. I don't see middle ground here - either God created man or he didn't.

Bidley wrote:

AarO)))n wrote:

Maybe. But if just stopping one war was the result. Would it not be worth it? But I agree. This is something that has no signs of ever happening. But that doesn't mean we should not try.

Not maybe, it would. Imagine the wars that would erupt if the entire population of the world was told they weren't allowed to follow their religion? And if we can ban beliefs, then we can ban anything. As an American, from the Land of the Free, I would've thought you would be opposed to this kind of action.

Quote :

Yes. But just because they are not doing it all the time is no reason not to stop them from doing it when they do. The same as not not stopping murder since we can't stop them all. If religion is tied to wars (as has been shown many times in here) then why not extract that from the equation and see what happens.

But you can't stop it "when they do". If you banned religion, you'd have to ban it for everyone. That's the hundreds of millions of people who aren't belligerent too. You can't take people's thoughts away, that's just insane, not to mention facist - something my country and yours fought against.

Quote :

Not simply throw our hands up and say, "It can't be done. So why try?"

I never said that. I said it wouldn't stop all the wars. It can be done, but it would be difficult, not to mention unethical, immoral and (as I said before) facist.

I make some very true points. I think what I was going for (though poorly put) was more about taking religion out of the equation. That would stop many wars. Is it something that can be banned? No. But it is an idea that could be explored. As John Lennon said in his song "Imagine". Just an idea, not something to be implemented as law, but more of an way of going about things. Extracting religion from a thought or war could stop a lot. Hard to enforce. But not an idea that is not without it's merits.

Nautilus wrote:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is first and foremost about land and government.

This is false. The reason they want these land are for religious purposes. They both feel it was ordained by their god to own this land. Of all the examples given. This is the one that involves religion the most.

Rosalind wrote:

Nautilus wrote:

Religion does far more good, and has saved far more lives, than it has killed. Besides, suddenly ABOLISHING religion would create chaos, just like Bidders is saying. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is first and foremost about land and government. Most "holy wars" are using the pretext of religion for power and money. It is people doing this, not God doing this. Jesus proclaimed that all peoples - Jews AND Gentiles - had a part in the kingdom if they believed. Unlike the Jews who were based on lineage. The popes that started those wars were greedy, selfish hypocrites.

Thomas, evolution and creationism are in no way contradictory, and the "appendix" example - it used to have a purpose. Now it has fulfilled that purpose and is useless.

Geoff - the purpose of a missionary isn't just to teach though. They help feed and shelter orphans and people in third-world countries. They don't do it of some sick desire to try to brainwash people or anything. They're trying to help. They're putting their own lives at risk and giving their all to help the unluckiest people in the world. And I'd imagine a really, really great way to help people is to gather them in and for the first time in their lives teach them to read and give them hot food and tell them that one day they'll be in heaven.

Fuck Aaron, you've got a lot of posts.

Explain to me how. I don't see middle ground here - either God created man or he didn't.

Or maybe, God created animals and influenced evolution. Maybe God set the whole thing in motion and evolution is still part of his doing. It's not THAT uncommon of a viewpoint dude - have you seriously never heard that? I'd say the majority of religious people believe that.

AarO)))n wrote:

Nautilus wrote:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is first and foremost about land and government.

This is false. The reason they want these land are for religious purposes. They both feel it was ordained by their god to own this land. Of all the examples given. This is the one that involves religion the most.

To the average people though, they just want a country and a nation they can call their own. They're fighting because over the course of history governments have come in and displaced people. If religion were suddenly abolished it still wouldn't change the fact that the Palestinians don't really have a nation.

Nautilus wrote:

Rosalind wrote:

Nautilus wrote:

Religion does far more good, and has saved far more lives, than it has killed. Besides, suddenly ABOLISHING religion would create chaos, just like Bidders is saying. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is first and foremost about land and government. Most "holy wars" are using the pretext of religion for power and money. It is people doing this, not God doing this. Jesus proclaimed that all peoples - Jews AND Gentiles - had a part in the kingdom if they believed. Unlike the Jews who were based on lineage. The popes that started those wars were greedy, selfish hypocrites.

Thomas, evolution and creationism are in no way contradictory, and the "appendix" example - it used to have a purpose. Now it has fulfilled that purpose and is useless.

Geoff - the purpose of a missionary isn't just to teach though. They help feed and shelter orphans and people in third-world countries. They don't do it of some sick desire to try to brainwash people or anything. They're trying to help. They're putting their own lives at risk and giving their all to help the unluckiest people in the world. And I'd imagine a really, really great way to help people is to gather them in and for the first time in their lives teach them to read and give them hot food and tell them that one day they'll be in heaven.

Fuck Aaron, you've got a lot of posts.

Explain to me how. I don't see middle ground here - either God created man or he didn't.

Or maybe, God created animals and influenced evolution. Maybe God set the whole thing in motion and evolution is still part of his doing. It's not THAT uncommon of a viewpoint dude - have you seriously never heard that? I'd say the majority of religious people believe that.

No, its new to me. I usually tune out whenever someone says "He works in mysterious ways" or "God did it" to every question. I still think the rationale behind the theory makes more sense, but then I have a fair bit of knowledge of genetics.

Nautilus wrote:

AarO)))n wrote:

Nautilus wrote:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is first and foremost about land and government.

This is false. The reason they want these land are for religious purposes. They both feel it was ordained by their god to own this land. Of all the examples given. This is the one that involves religion the most.

To the average people though, they just want a country and a nation they can call their own. They're fighting because over the course of history governments have come in and displaced people. If religion were suddenly abolished it still wouldn't change the fact that the Palestinians don't really have a nation.

True. But the land is important because of their religion. It is were the Muslim temple is built and where the Jews WANT to build theirs. Also, you can if it to death. It doesn't change the facts.

God may or may not exist, but as far as the bible (or any religious) doctrine I think it's a load of bullshit. I don't believe that god passed on his doctrine to any humans.

Does it also always have to be about war? I think it's terrible that people are literally giving up their lives for god or thinking falsely about it. Obviously it's incredible arrogant to suggest this but I think it's sad that people still have beliefs from the stone age. People are more powerful than we think. In Some parts of India taxi drivers and other people drive at ridiculous speeds because they think that if they crash it's 'god's will' which of course is bogus. People can do a lot of great things but also a lot of bad things, I think it's good for us to play god because certainly the current one isn't doing much of that. I think it's a shame that some people refuse to try and improve their lives and other peoples' because they believe they have no power and should just worship god.

Why do people always assume that God's not doing anything?

Monkzum wrote:

I think it's a shame that some people refuse to try and improve their lives and other peoples' because they believe they have no power and should just worship god.

This is a new mantra to me.

Nautilus wrote:

Why do people always assume that God's not doing anything?

Ever wonder why it rains? Even God needs to pee from time to time.

Rosalind wrote:

Nautilus wrote:

Why do people always assume that God's not doing anything?

Ever wonder why it rains? Even God needs to pee from time to time.

Rosalind wrote:

I don't believe a being that has never interacted with me in an observable way is important.

Nautilus wrote:

Rosalind wrote:

Nautilus wrote:

Why do people always assume that God's not doing anything?

Ever wonder why it rains? Even God needs to pee from time to time.

Rosalind wrote:

I don't believe a being that has never interacted with me in an observable way is important.

1) One was serious, one was sarcastic.
2) I don't believe rain has had a significant impact on my life.

That wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that he HAS made an influence on your life.

Nautilus wrote:

That wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that he HAS made an influence on your life.

God himself however has never interacted with me, only his followers have.

Rosalind wrote:

Nautilus wrote:

That wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that he HAS made an influence on your life.

God himself however has never interacted with me, only his followers have.

But he has. Hasn't anyone ever done anything nice for you?

Bidley wrote:

Monkzum wrote:

I think it's a shame that some people refuse to try and improve their lives and other peoples' because they believe they have no power and should just worship god.

This is a new mantra to me.

What the fuck is a mantra?

Nautilus wrote:

Rosalind wrote:

Nautilus wrote:

That wasn't the point I was making. The point I was making is that he HAS made an influence on your life.

God himself however has never interacted with me, only his followers have.

But he has. Hasn't anyone ever done anything nice for you?

How is that god? That is simply someone being nice to me because it's human to do so, it has nothing to do with god. I'd personally quite like god to reach down and help me with my maths prep but he won't so i'll rely on some of my friends.

Monkzum wrote:

What the fuck is a mantra?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mantra

Ziegenbartami wrote:

Monkzum wrote:

What the fuck is a mantra?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mantra

Carl is a hindu?

Nautilus wrote:

But he has. Hasn't anyone ever done anything nice for you?

Yes. I have also had people steal from me, try to physically harm me, and allow people I love to die horrible deaths. Was that god also?

Monkzum wrote:

Ziegenbartami wrote:

Monkzum wrote:

What the fuck is a mantra?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mantra

Carl is a hindu?

n. 2. A commonly repeated word or phrase