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AarO)))n
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 3:16 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Sign of the Black Mark wrote:
I've had a bass for a few years but never really learned anything beyond just memorizing tabs for certain songs, and I kind of want to get started actaully figuring out how to play. Do most of the basics for learning guitar (learning scales and chords and all that stuff) also apply for learning bass? Is it just like an easier version of learning guitar, or is there anything else you would need to do differently?

Most/all of the theory should be identical, its just the practices that would differ. Id also expect scales to be more important than chords tbh, and if you finger pick, its well worth practicing the pop/slap technique as its a relatively simple (once you get the hang of it anyway) way of adding variety to a bass riff. Mark King practically invented the style for it. Example.

Actually, Larry Graham is credited with the invention of it. He first used it in Sly and the Family Stone.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 4:02 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Sign of the Black Mark wrote:
I've had a bass for a few years but never really learned anything beyond just memorizing tabs for certain songs, and I kind of want to get started actaully figuring out how to play. Do most of the basics for learning guitar (learning scales and chords and all that stuff) also apply for learning bass? Is it just like an easier version of learning guitar, or is there anything else you would need to do differently?

Most/all of the theory should be identical, its just the practices that would differ. Id also expect scales to be more important than chords tbh, and if you finger pick, its well worth practicing the pop/slap technique as its a relatively simple (once you get the hang of it anyway) way of adding variety to a bass riff. Mark King practically invented the style for it. Example.

Actually, Larry Graham is credited with the invention of it. He first used it in Sly and the Family Stone.

I meant in modern music.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 4:07 pm

Rosalind wrote:
AarO)))n wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Sign of the Black Mark wrote:
I've had a bass for a few years but never really learned anything beyond just memorizing tabs for certain songs, and I kind of want to get started actaully figuring out how to play. Do most of the basics for learning guitar (learning scales and chords and all that stuff) also apply for learning bass? Is it just like an easier version of learning guitar, or is there anything else you would need to do differently?

Most/all of the theory should be identical, its just the practices that would differ. Id also expect scales to be more important than chords tbh, and if you finger pick, its well worth practicing the pop/slap technique as its a relatively simple (once you get the hang of it anyway) way of adding variety to a bass riff. Mark King practically invented the style for it. Example.

Actually, Larry Graham is credited with the invention of it. He first used it in Sly and the Family Stone.

I meant in modern music.

How is Sly & The Family Stone not modern music? Are they classical? Mark King plays in a band that started in the 70's. So how is he "modern"? Look if you didn't know about Larry Graham it is OK. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong just letting you know is all.
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Rosalind
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 4:24 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
AarO)))n wrote:
Rosalind wrote:
Sign of the Black Mark wrote:
I've had a bass for a few years but never really learned anything beyond just memorizing tabs for certain songs, and I kind of want to get started actaully figuring out how to play. Do most of the basics for learning guitar (learning scales and chords and all that stuff) also apply for learning bass? Is it just like an easier version of learning guitar, or is there anything else you would need to do differently?

Most/all of the theory should be identical, its just the practices that would differ. Id also expect scales to be more important than chords tbh, and if you finger pick, its well worth practicing the pop/slap technique as its a relatively simple (once you get the hang of it anyway) way of adding variety to a bass riff. Mark King practically invented the style for it. Example.

Actually, Larry Graham is credited with the invention of it. He first used it in Sly and the Family Stone.

I meant in modern music.

How is Sly & The Family Stone not modern music? Are they classical? Mark King plays in a band that started in the 70's. So how is he "modern"? Look if you didn't know about Larry Graham it is OK. I wasn't trying to prove you wrong just letting you know is all.

Larry Graham was a 50s Jazz musician. Level 42 play - in particular their latter days - a pop/funk. He is responsible for introducing it to 'modern' music such as pop, rock and metal. I knew he wasn't the first (though I confess, didn't know Larry Graham was) but he popularised it. Its the 'did Metallica invent thrash' argument all over again. No, they didn't, but because of them it became a widely known technique.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 4:35 pm

Rosalind wrote:

Quote :
Larry Graham was a 50s Jazz musician.
Really? He was in a Jazz band when he was 12? The man was born in 1946 Thomas. Sly & The Family Stone are one of the great pioneers of Funk and Psychedelic Soul. He didn't start playing with them until 1967( I will assume this was after his tenure in the great Jazz bands he was in in the 50's at the age of 10 Razz). If you would like to learn more about him, here is a link.



Quote :
Level 42 play - in particular their latter days - a pop/funk. He is responsible for introducing it to 'modern' music such as pop, rock and metal. I knew he wasn't the first (though I confess, didn't know Larry Graham was) but he popularised it. Its the 'did Metallica invent thrash' argument all over again. No, they didn't, but because of them it became a widely known technique.
He may have popularized it with musicians. But I assure you more now Sly & The Family Stone then know Level 42. So people may not even realize they know a Sly song, they are that popular.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 4:44 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Rosalind wrote:

Quote :
Larry Graham was a 50s Jazz musician.
Really? He was in a Jazz band when he was 12? The man was born in 1946 Thomas. Sly & The Family Stone are one of the great pioneers of Funk and Psychedelic Soul. He didn't start playing with them until 1967( I will assume this was after his tenure in the great Jazz bands he was in in the 50's at the age of 10 Razz). If you would like to learn more about him, here is a link.



Quote :
Level 42 play - in particular their latter days - a pop/funk. He is responsible for introducing it to 'modern' music such as pop, rock and metal. I knew he wasn't the first (though I confess, didn't know Larry Graham was) but he popularised it. Its the 'did Metallica invent thrash' argument all over again. No, they didn't, but because of them it became a widely known technique.
He may have popularized it with musicians. But I assure you more now Sly & The Family Stone then know Level 42. So people may not even realize they know a Sly song, they are that popular.

So you're telling me you think funk is more widely known than pop?
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 4:54 pm

Rosalind wrote:
[
So you're telling me you think funk is more widely known than pop?

I am telling you that Sly & The Family Stone is FAR AND AWAY more popular than Level 42. I assure you you know Sly songs and don't even know it(unless you are a fan which doesn't seem the case). Take this song for instance.


It has been used in thousands of movies and commercials. Can the same be said for Level 42?

Here is a example of the slap bass that Larry made famous that you have now realized.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 5:04 pm

I know who they are (though im not a fan, you're right).

You're arguing something totally different though. Back in the 80s Level 42 were HUGE, whereas jazz largely died out from the mainstream eye by the 60s. Which is more popular now, Miley Cyrus or Atheist? In 40 years, which will be remembered?

The point is one is still remembered today whilst the other isn't as much, but that doesn't deny them of the influence they held. Mark King was probably the most influential slap/pop bass musician of his time. Not necessarily the best band, nor the best remembered artist now, but influential at that time.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 5:17 pm

Rosalind wrote:
I know who they are (though im not a fan, you're right).

You're arguing something totally different though. Back in the 80s Level 42 were HUGE, whereas jazz largely died out from the mainstream eye by the 60s. Which is more popular now, Miley Cyrus or Atheist? In 40 years, which will be remembered?

The point is one is still remembered today whilst the other isn't as much, but that doesn't deny them of the influence they held. Mark King was probably the most influential slap/pop bass musician of his time. Not necessarily the best band, nor the best remembered artist now, but influential at that time.

I don't deny his influence on musicians(as I stated before). I was alive in the 80's and to say Level 42 was HUGE is a bit of an overstatement. Though in England this may not have been the case. No offense. But to be HUGE in the 80's meant that you broke in America. All bands of that time will attest to that. Now not so much as it is a bit of backlash (and rightfully so). I can't say they were getting regular rotation in American radio or MTV. Again, I agree with the influence. But the technique was popularized long before Level 42 came along. Sly influenced Bootsy Collins who played with James Brown and then Parliment. Now that is influence and all of those band were HUGE and are still influencial to this day.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 5:22 pm

Different definitions of popularity then. I disagree whole-heartedly that an artist has to be big in America to be big Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 5:50 pm

Rosalind wrote:
Different definitions of popularity then. I disagree whole-heartedly that an artist has to be big in America to be big Razz

Now yes. But in the 80's that was the case, whether you agree is not the point. I am not saying it either. This is what artist were saying, especially pop artists in the 80's. Look as I have said I am not saying Level 42 was not popular of that their bassist was not influencial. What I was pointing out was that there was someone popularizing the slap technique long before the guy in Level 42. Since you were not aware of that(as previous posted have proven) I just thought I would let you know. Say what you would like. But if a survey was taken right now of 100 people given only the song and not the artist. I am willing to bet 75-80% would know the Sly song over the Level 42 song. I don't care what country you were in.

You want to know the irony of all this. If it had not been for a BBC produced documentary about the origins of Soul and Fuck that I had recently seen on VH1 Classic. I would never have had the knowledge with which to call out your mistake.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 5:59 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
If it had not been for a BBC produced documentary about the origins of Soul and Fuck that I had recently seen on VH1 Classic.

Is it some sort of weird pornographic documentary? If so, can you upload it?
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 6:21 pm

Dude, Sly and the Family Stone are famous for playing at Woodstock, and they did the Grammys a couple of years ago.

also, lol at Aaron saying "fuck" but meaning "funk".

For the most part the theory will be the same, Mark.

Thomas: Okay, how about this. Pop music is much more popular than metal, but more people know who Metallica is than who Level 42 are. More people know who Beethoven was then who Level 42 are. I'd never even heard of Level 42 until Monkey started fapping them a while back.

Pop music =/= popular.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 6:37 pm

Nautilus wrote:
Dude, Sly and the Family Stone are famous for playing at Woodstock, and they did the Grammys a couple of years ago.

also, lol at Aaron saying "fuck" but meaning "funk".

For the most part the theory will be the same, Mark.

Thomas: Okay, how about this. Pop music is much more popular than metal, but more people know who Metallica is than who Level 42 are. More people know who Beethoven was then who Level 42 are. I'd never even heard of Level 42 until Monkey started fapping them a while back.

Pop music =/= popular.

They've some 30 million albums and were in the charts every year for the best part of a decade. I said it before and i'll say it again, just because an artist isn't well known in the US doesn't mean they aren't well known. The world doesn't revolve around America.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 8:18 pm

Rosalind wrote:


They've some 30 million albums and were in the charts every year for the best part of a decade. I said it before and i'll say it again, just because an artist isn't well known in the US doesn't mean they aren't well known. The world doesn't revolve around America.

And I have said now twice and shall say it a third. NOT NOW BUT IN THE 80's THIS WAS TRUE. Foreign artist did not feel like they had REALLY made it until they broke into the American charts. Hell the same could be said for the Beatles to some degree. Take the Clash for instance. They were and always will be one of the important bands in the history of rock. But they didn't really become "The only band that mattered" until they broke in America. Then they ceased to be the punk band from England and became the world famous Clash. I don't say this with some pompous American pride. I am just saying how it happened. Times have changed. Take David Hasslhoff. That guy could not give away a CD here in America. But the Germans LOVE him. Proving that now you are right. You don't have to break in America to be big.

Try reading this without your usual "I hate all things American" attitude and really read what I am saying.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 8:22 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Rosalind wrote:


They've some 30 million albums and were in the charts every year for the best part of a decade. I said it before and i'll say it again, just because an artist isn't well known in the US doesn't mean they aren't well known. The world doesn't revolve around America.

And I have said now twice and shall say it a third. NOT NOW BUT IN THE 80's THIS WAS TRUE. Foreign artist did not feel like they had REALLY made it until they broke into the American charts. Hell the same could be said for the Beatles to some degree. Take the Clash for instance. They were and always will be one of the important bands in the history of rock. But they didn't really become "The only band that mattered" until they broke in America. Then they ceased to be the punk band from England and became the world famous Clash. I don't say this with some pompous American pride. I am just saying how it happened. Times have changed. Take David Hasslhoff. That guy could not give away a CD here in America. But the Germans LOVE him. Proving that now you are right. You don't have to break in America to be big.

Try reading this without your usual "I hate all things American" attitude and really read what I am saying.

I dont hate all things American and Im not entirely sure where you keep getting that idea from. You're saying that back in the 80s artists weren't big unless they were well received in the US. Im disagreeing with you.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 8:23 pm

Nautilus wrote:
Dude, Sly and the Family Stone are famous for playing at Woodstock, and they did the Grammys a couple of years ago.

Sorry Alex. but they are know for much more than that. They were not just some flash in the pan band. They were very popular and for the racially harsh times, very inspirational. There they were with a message of peace and brotherhood with a multi-cultural band. This does not include there influence on FUNK(I got it right this time Razz) that I outlined to Thomas. They may not be someone you know but that does not make them any less of a band or influential. They were a very important band for their time and their music still holds up today.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 8:31 pm

Rosalind wrote:

I dont hate all things American and Im not entirely sure where you keep getting that idea from. You're saying that back in the 80s artists weren't big unless they were well received in the US. Im disagreeing with you.

WOW. You still are not getting it. Or perhaps I am not saying it clearly. I don't mean to say they didn't make it. I mean to say that THEY DIDN'T feel they had made it until they hit the American charts. These are there words not mine. True I can not speak for Level 42. But again, they are not a popular as you think. Just because they played Top of the Pops a few times does not mean they are wildly known outside of England. Which also proves my point about the fact that Level 42 bassist was not as influential as the one from Sly & the Family Stone. You know, the one you tried to say was in a Jazz band in the 50's despite being 10 years of age.

As for your "hating all things American". Yeah I guess it is a figment of my imagination. Or perhaps I read the MANY comments you make disparaging America and drew a conclusion. While I doubt you "hate" all thing America. You certainly seem to look down on it. Something I never see done to your country by anyone in here ever. You are free to say what you like. But don't get upset when called on it.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 9:45 pm

Quote :
I dont hate all things American and Im not entirely sure where you keep getting that idea from.

In all honesty I don't remember you ever saying anything good about the US, yet there are many times when you say how much something American sucks or is inferior to elsewhere. I don't really care, but Aaron didn't just pull that out of his ass. Yes I said "ass" not "arse". Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 10:12 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Nautilus wrote:
Dude, Sly and the Family Stone are famous for playing at Woodstock, and they did the Grammys a couple of years ago.

Sorry Alex. but they are know for much more than that. They were not just some flash in the pan band. They were very popular and for the racially harsh times, very inspirational. There they were with a message of peace and brotherhood with a multi-cultural band. This does not include there influence on FUNK(I got it right this time Razz) that I outlined to Thomas. They may not be someone you know but that does not make them any less of a band or influential. They were a very important band for their time and their music still holds up today.

Oh, I know, I was just throwing that off from the top of my head. They were HUGELY influential.

Also I can't find statistics but I'd be willing to bet that they have more albums sold than Level 42.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 10:21 pm

Also, you can be big in the world but not in America - but once you're big in America, you're big everywhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 10:23 pm

Nautilus wrote:
Also, you can be big in the world but not in America - but once you're big in America, you're big everywhere.

I agree. But understand I was mainly talking about 80's pop artists which is what Level 42 were.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyTue Oct 20, 2009 10:26 pm

Sign of the Black Mark wrote:
AarO)))n wrote:
If it had not been for a BBC produced documentary about the origins of Soul and Fuck that I had recently seen on VH1 Classic.

Is it some sort of weird pornographic documentary? If so, can you upload it?

lol!

I guess I was having a Freudian slip. What can I say. I get horny when I argue Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyWed Oct 21, 2009 4:46 am

AarO)))n wrote:
Rosalind wrote:

I dont hate all things American and Im not entirely sure where you keep getting that idea from. You're saying that back in the 80s artists weren't big unless they were well received in the US. Im disagreeing with you.

WOW. You still are not getting it. Or perhaps I am not saying it clearly. I don't mean to say they didn't make it. I mean to say that THEY DIDN'T feel they had made it until they hit the American charts. These are there words not mine. True I can not speak for Level 42. But again, they are not a popular as you think. Just because they played Top of the Pops a few times does not mean they are wildly known outside of England. Which also proves my point about the fact that Level 42 bassist was not as influential as the one from Sly & the Family Stone. You know, the one you tried to say was in a Jazz band in the 50's despite being 10 years of age.

As for your "hating all things American". Yeah I guess it is a figment of my imagination. Or perhaps I read the MANY comments you make disparaging America and drew a conclusion. While I doubt you "hate" all thing America. You certainly seem to look down on it. Something I never see done to your country by anyone in here ever. You are free to say what you like. But don't get upset when called on it.

1) Proof? So I got dates muddled up, Sly never got big over here, so I guess that means he wasn't a very influential artist. Or does it only work for America?

2) I don't hate all things American, nor do I look down on it. Because I don't constantly praise it, or dislike things like 'Hollywood Blockbusters' and 'Florideath' doesn't somehow mean I'm anti-american. I don't like all the soaps and reality TV we get over in the UK either but that doesn't make me anti-British does it? No, im not filled with some sort of American pride and like everything about the country and think its better than any other nation on the planet. If that in your eyes makes me a hater of the entire country, then I have nothing more to add.
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PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk EmptyWed Oct 21, 2009 4:48 am

son_ov_hades wrote:
Quote :
I dont hate all things American and Im not entirely sure where you keep getting that idea from.

In all honesty I don't remember you ever saying anything good about the US, yet there are many times when you say how much something American sucks or is inferior to elsewhere. I don't really care, but Aaron didn't just pull that out of his ass. Yes I said "ass" not "arse". Razz

I rarely say anything good about 99% of countries. Do I hate all them as well? Or is it only the US that gets this special status, seeing as everyone should love it? Razz
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