Lifer
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeSearchLatest imagesMusic Review BlogMovie Review BlogRegisterLog in

Share  | 
 

 Pop=Funk

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
Rosalind
Caretaker of Chaos
Caretaker of Chaos
Rosalind

Posts : 1632
Join date : 2008-05-13
Age : 35
Location : UK

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 2:12 pm

Dropping knowledge is one thing, forming counter arguments with ad hominem remarks that the debater is racist is something else entirely. I never refuted your claim, I corrected my own to more adequately convey my meaning.

Sly didn't play pop, and are hence irrelevant in the argument of who introduced a style to the genre of pop music. I can't put it any more blatantly than that.
Back to top Go down
http://lifer.heavenforum.com
Nautilus
Mantooth
Mantooth
Nautilus

Posts : 526
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 33
Location : moonlight is bleeding out of your soul.

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 2:44 pm

But they DID, now can we get this the fuck back on topic?
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/iwokeuptoday
son_ov_hades
Towards the Pantheon
Towards the Pantheon
son_ov_hades

Posts : 358
Join date : 2009-09-08
Age : 36
Location : New Jersey

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 3:03 pm

When did Thomas turn into Julian?
Back to top Go down
Rosalind
Caretaker of Chaos
Caretaker of Chaos
Rosalind

Posts : 1632
Join date : 2008-05-13
Age : 35
Location : UK

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 3:10 pm

Topic split.

What can I say, I disagree that Pop=Funk and that American music determines the popularity of the entire Western Hemisphere.
Back to top Go down
http://lifer.heavenforum.com
AarO)))n
Hellbent for Lifer
Hellbent for Lifer
AarO)))n

Posts : 2140
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 46
Location : Los Angeles WEST SIDE BITCHES

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 3:44 pm

Rosalind wrote:

Quote :
Dropping knowledge is one thing, forming counter arguments with ad hominem remarks that the debater is racist is something else entirely.
You have seriously lost your shit Thomas. You insult people all the time. I on the other hand was more than patient with you before I finally said anything derogatory about you personally. You are the only one that sees yourself as a racist. You take my comments as some implied meaning based on some definition by the UN. Seems just asking me what I meant and not what you are implying would hold more water. As I have stated many times to you Thomas. I am not calling you a racist. But as I, and Geoff have pointed out, you do take all oportunities to take pot shots at America. Which is your rite and I would never tell you to stop. But am I to just not say anything about it? Would you if the roles were reversed? I doubt it. I mean you are telling me that I have some how offended you? This was never my intent nor do I feel I did. But if this is how you feel, despite me telling you to the contrary, then I will say sorry. I had no idea that you were so sensitive. Again just to clarify. I do not think you are a racist Thomas. I in fact think you are a really cool guy and despite these little fits we seems to have, respect your knowledge. But you can not expect me to listen to you make derogatory statements about my country and not see there is a pattern(as others have seen). So because of that I don't think it is a stretch to say that your feelings in regards to countries is bias. But it should be to some degree. I do not expect you to love America. Why would you you don't live here. While I may not love England I do respect it, and do not go out of my way to insult it as you do. Now you can say this is not true if you like but proof is to the contrary. And your now silly usage of finding ways to incorporate this perceived racism in any and all posts is just becoming childish, and that does not become you at all.

Quote :
I never refuted your claim, I corrected my own to more adequately convey my meaning
Translation. I changed my answer so that I would still be right. Though my first statement was not. You said he "practically invented it". I said who "actually" invented it. Then you said, "Well I meant who popularized it in modern music." Then I questioned you on what modern music was saying that Sly was indeed modern music as was Level 42. Then this is where you tried to tell me was a Jazz musician in the 50'. Though he had only been born in 1946. Does any of this ring a bell Thomas? If not feel free to read from the beginning. It is all there and I am making nothing up.

Quote :
Sly didn't play pop, and are hence irrelevant in the argument of who introduced a style to the genre of pop music. I can't put it any more blatantly than that.
Again, this is a time where the definition of pop was not the same as it is now. Pop simply meant popular. Their record sales and ability to chart outside the US are a testament to that. You never said who introduced it to pop Thomas. Your original statement was that "He practically invented it". This is what I disputed. You then changed the argument to fit your answer saying "modern music". And so on and so on. I think you need to read from the beginning of this argument.
Back to top Go down
http://www.last.fm/user/musickfreeck
truewalrus
Into the Pit
Into the Pit
truewalrus

Posts : 218
Join date : 2009-09-11
Age : 35
Location : California

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 4:20 pm

I think Prince slapped before Mark King did anyways. So, even if Larry Graham didn't bring it to pop, it was still used in pop music before Mark King came along.
Back to top Go down
http://www.last.fm/user/truewalrus
Nautilus
Mantooth
Mantooth
Nautilus

Posts : 526
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 33
Location : moonlight is bleeding out of your soul.

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 4:20 pm

Everyone knows the true king of slap bass is Jerry Seinfeld.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4_AwMUiLhc&feature=related
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/iwokeuptoday
AarO)))n
Hellbent for Lifer
Hellbent for Lifer
AarO)))n

Posts : 2140
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 46
Location : Los Angeles WEST SIDE BITCHES

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 4:32 pm

truewalrus wrote:
I think Prince slapped before Mark King did anyways. So, even if Larry Graham didn't bring it to pop, it was still used in pop music before Mark King came along.

If there is any lineage of slap bass. It might go Larry Graham, Bootsy Collins and then Mark King, and then perhaps Prince. Though Rick James may have been doing it before Prince. After all he is Rick James BITCH! Razz
Back to top Go down
http://www.last.fm/user/musickfreeck
Nautilus
Mantooth
Mantooth
Nautilus

Posts : 526
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 33
Location : moonlight is bleeding out of your soul.

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 4:47 pm

I did some digging (lol, Wikipedia) and you're both wrong. Jazz bassists used it extensively in the '40s but Graham was the first to introduce it to popular music.
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/iwokeuptoday
AarO)))n
Hellbent for Lifer
Hellbent for Lifer
AarO)))n

Posts : 2140
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 46
Location : Los Angeles WEST SIDE BITCHES

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 4:51 pm

Nautilus wrote:
I did some digging (lol, Wikipedia) and you're both wrong. Jazz bassists used it extensively in the '40s but Graham was the first to introduce it to popular music.

Graham was credited with doing it on an electric bass. Before it was done only on stand up bass.
Back to top Go down
http://www.last.fm/user/musickfreeck
truewalrus
Into the Pit
Into the Pit
truewalrus

Posts : 218
Join date : 2009-09-11
Age : 35
Location : California

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 5:01 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
truewalrus wrote:
I think Prince slapped before Mark King did anyways. So, even if Larry Graham didn't bring it to pop, it was still used in pop music before Mark King came along.

If there is any lineage of slap bass. It might go Larry Graham, Bootsy Collins and then Mark King, and then perhaps Prince. Though Rick James may have been doing it before Prince. After all he is Rick James BITCH! Razz

Prince's first two albums were before Level 42's first and Prince does do some slapping on both albums. Just sayin'.
Back to top Go down
http://www.last.fm/user/truewalrus
AarO)))n
Hellbent for Lifer
Hellbent for Lifer
AarO)))n

Posts : 2140
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 46
Location : Los Angeles WEST SIDE BITCHES

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptyThu Oct 22, 2009 5:27 pm

truewalrus wrote:
AarO)))n wrote:
truewalrus wrote:
I think Prince slapped before Mark King did anyways. So, even if Larry Graham didn't bring it to pop, it was still used in pop music before Mark King came along.

If there is any lineage of slap bass. It might go Larry Graham, Bootsy Collins and then Mark King, and then perhaps Prince. Though Rick James may have been doing it before Prince. After all he is Rick James BITCH! Razz

Prince's first two albums were before Level 42's first and Prince does do some slapping on both albums. Just sayin'.

Interesting. I had no idea Prince started that early. Well then you have a point. They were also born in the same year, 58.
Back to top Go down
http://www.last.fm/user/musickfreeck
Monkzum
Overlord of Pain
Overlord of Pain
Monkzum

Posts : 301
Join date : 2009-09-07
Age : 29
Location : London

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySat Oct 24, 2009 2:21 pm

Oh god haha, where do I start...

Well firstly, T diesel is wrong here man. L42 were fairly big but hardly big at all, trust me my parents haven't even heard of them. Bawden, even in the UK L42 aren't big and weren't that big. Sure, they played wembley and had awards but they really weren't nearly as big as you make them out to be. They only realised commercial success in the late 80's after selling out. SandTFS are bigger, they really are. Mark King also isn't as good as you say here is. Sure, he was the main force in hard, fast slapping in triplets but he really didn't do THAT much for slap bass. Hell, he hardly did it after the second album and on the first two he recycled so much of his riffs that he can't be given that much praise. He's technically pretty skilled but hardly by that much.

Now i'll address your hissy fits...

I sometimes think I hate the US but then again there are times when I thinkI hate everything. But really I have no prejudice towards a country... sure some have tendencies but to say you hate a place because of a few million retarded yanks is stupid because there are a few million yanks who are pretty awesome. Do american tv shows suck? Some do of course but I really love some of them. It's the same with just about every country in the world. England in one sense is a PC shithole but then again it's also a really cultured and exciting place. It just depends on how you look at it.

Also from your first post, please don't talk about bass like that. Have you ever even played slap bass to a high standard man? it's not an easy technique at all, don't make statements like that without any personal experience.
Back to top Go down
Rosalind
Caretaker of Chaos
Caretaker of Chaos
Rosalind

Posts : 1632
Join date : 2008-05-13
Age : 35
Location : UK

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySat Oct 24, 2009 6:19 pm

Monk: I still stand by the notion that pop and funk are different things.

I dont hate the US. I've never said I did which is why I was taken aback. Because it often crops up in conversation i'll often say I prefer x to american. I prefer Italian PM, Asian women (duh), German/Austrian classical music, Belgian and Polish beer (lager), etc, etc. It seems that because of my liking for a variety of ways nationalities do things I've been labelled as forming pre-judgements on other area's of American culture (which in my mind is calling me racist) which simply isn't true. And this isn't the first time its come up. I overreacted, but my stance hasn't changed and I'm still offended at being branded a racist by others.

As for talking about bass, yeah, actually I have second-hand knowledge. (One of) the bassists for my old band was a huge RHCPs nut and within 6 months of picking up the guitar could slap along to Coffee Shop. Within a year he was jamming his own stuff about as technical (though it didn't sound as good imo). Its like sweeping or tapping; you'll sound like shit to begin with but with enough practice you eventually come into a rhythm. Perhaps he was a guitar prodigy, but im more inclined to go with the idea that he just practised a lot.
Back to top Go down
http://lifer.heavenforum.com
Nautilus
Mantooth
Mantooth
Nautilus

Posts : 526
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 33
Location : moonlight is bleeding out of your soul.

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySat Oct 24, 2009 8:35 pm

Pop and funk ARE different things, but Sly were a pop/R&B band primarily.

How would you define "pop" anyway? The Beatles, T-Pain, New Kids on the Block, Maroon 5, David Bowie, Hikaru Utada, and even Porcupine Tree are often considered to be variously "pop", and they sound nothing alike. AT ALL.
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/iwokeuptoday
Rosalind
Caretaker of Chaos
Caretaker of Chaos
Rosalind

Posts : 1632
Join date : 2008-05-13
Age : 35
Location : UK

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySat Oct 24, 2009 8:41 pm

Nautilus wrote:
Pop and funk ARE different things, but Sly were a pop/R&B band primarily.

How would you define "pop" anyway? The Beatles, T-Pain, New Kids on the Block, Maroon 5, David Bowie, Hikaru Utada, and even Porcupine Tree are often considered to be variously "pop", and they sound nothing alike. AT ALL.

T-Pain is hip-hop, new kids/Maroon 5 are pop/rock, Bowie depends on the era, and PT are prog rock. Abba are an excellent example of pop music, and the whole Britney/Aguilera/Madonna bollocks as well for more modern pop music. I always knew Sly as a funk/R&B band.

EDIT: For pedantic clarification, I use the term 'knew' loosely.
Back to top Go down
http://lifer.heavenforum.com
Nautilus
Mantooth
Mantooth
Nautilus

Posts : 526
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 33
Location : moonlight is bleeding out of your soul.

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 1:51 am

Technically, T-Pain is closer to R&B, which is far and away the most popular form of music these days. New Kids were a fucking boy band, dude. I've always considered Abba more of a disco-pop kind of band, but then again at that time disco WAS pop.

Funk didn't really exist as a genre until James Brown and his ilk came along just a few years later. Sly are like the Motorhead of funk music.

Also, tell me this isn't a pop song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n70P6c9gGDo&feature=related
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/iwokeuptoday
Nautilus
Mantooth
Mantooth
Nautilus

Posts : 526
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 33
Location : moonlight is bleeding out of your soul.

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 1:54 am

Also just because it's in the form of a "band" doesn't automatically make it pop-rock. Modern pop isn't so much, but it's generally always been a form of rock.
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/iwokeuptoday
Rosalind
Caretaker of Chaos
Caretaker of Chaos
Rosalind

Posts : 1632
Join date : 2008-05-13
Age : 35
Location : UK

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 7:12 am

PT Still feels like Rock to me. Just because its a bit slower doesn't make it automatically pop. I mean, are we gonna start calling Bruce Springsteen pop as well?

I'm going for the genre of pop, not the definition. Its the same bollocks with indie where 90% of it is not independent, but its still a genre with its own style. I always thought new kids were pop/rock but eh, I don't listen to the genre unless I have to. As for disco-pop, thats where the Bee Gees come in.
Back to top Go down
http://lifer.heavenforum.com
Peter
Towards the Pantheon
Towards the Pantheon
Peter

Posts : 377
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 30
Location : Denmark

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 8:37 am

Like heavy metal pop is both a genre and an umbrella term and as a genre it can be infused with other genres.
Back to top Go down
Monkzum
Overlord of Pain
Overlord of Pain
Monkzum

Posts : 301
Join date : 2009-09-07
Age : 29
Location : London

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 8:47 am

Rosalind wrote:
Monk: I still stand by the notion that pop and funk are different things.

I dont hate the US. I've never said I did which is why I was taken aback. Because it often crops up in conversation i'll often say I prefer x to american. I prefer Italian PM, Asian women (duh), German/Austrian classical music, Belgian and Polish beer (lager), etc, etc. It seems that because of my liking for a variety of ways nationalities do things I've been labelled as forming pre-judgements on other area's of American culture (which in my mind is calling me racist) which simply isn't true. And this isn't the first time its come up. I overreacted, but my stance hasn't changed and I'm still offended at being branded a racist by others.

As for talking about bass, yeah, actually I have second-hand knowledge. (One of) the bassists for my old band was a huge RHCPs nut and within 6 months of picking up the guitar could slap along to Coffee Shop. Within a year he was jamming his own stuff about as technical (though it didn't sound as good imo). Its like sweeping or tapping; you'll sound like shit to begin with but with enough practice you eventually come into a rhythm. Perhaps he was a guitar prodigy, but im more inclined to go with the idea that he just practised a lot.

Yeah sure funk and pop aren't the same things. I never said anything about that, i'm just addressing the things that you're wrong about.

Never said you did, the americans are just getting defensive. If I complained about 10 things and none of them affected them except for when I complained about the US then they would only notice when I mentioned the US. That's kind of what i'm saying.

Second hand knowledge is weaaak. Until you've picked up a bass and tried to do real hard slapping then you can't know. Sure, from the outside you think you know but from a bass player's viewpoint you don't. RHCP actually have pretty simple bass lines. Once you notice all the dead notes in difficult slapping then maybe you'll reconsider... or actually pick up a bass and try them yourself.
Back to top Go down
AarO)))n
Hellbent for Lifer
Hellbent for Lifer
AarO)))n

Posts : 2140
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 46
Location : Los Angeles WEST SIDE BITCHES

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 9:51 am

Monkzum wrote:
Quote :
Yeah sure funk and pop aren't the same things. I never said anything about that, i'm just addressing the things that you're wrong about.
No one said pop and funk were the same thing. As I and Alex have pointed out SEVERAL times. They played Fuck but were a pop band as the term applied in their time.
Quote :
Never said you did, the Americans are just getting defensive. If I complained about 10 things and none of them affected them except for when I complained about the US then they would only notice when I mentioned the US. That's kind of what i'm saying.
I am not getting defensive. Thomas (as pointed out by another member) goes out of his way to take pot shots at America. I defy you to find me anywhere where he does this for other countries as a whole. My reasoning for bring up his feelings on America, was because I knew the moment that I said that artist in the 80's didn't feel like they made it until they made it in America, it would immediately make Thomas see red. As if I were asserting that no one makes it unless you make it in America. This came true as evidenced by his response. So it is not a matter of getting defensive. It was me trying to get Thomas to read my post for what it was, not what he thought. Though his constant bitching about me calling him a racist(something that is not true and is something only felt by him and him alone) shows that he refuses to read and understand what I have said. Instead he has pulled a Julian. He has taken an argument about slap bass(an argument he was wrong about) and changed it into a whaa whaa Aaron is attacking me and calling me names argument. Something he refuses to move on from as witnessed by his childish comments in the E.P. he dropped of in the music news section. If I am being defensive about anything. It is his attempt to gain favor with others by accusing me of saying something I did not say.
Back to top Go down
http://www.last.fm/user/musickfreeck
Silchias Ruin
Towards the Pantheon
Towards the Pantheon
Silchias Ruin

Posts : 273
Join date : 2009-10-04
Age : 42
Location : Calgary, Alberta

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 10:45 am

Rosalind wrote:
Different definitions of popularity then. I disagree whole-heartedly that an artist has to be big in America to be big Razz

That's not what Aaron said, he said in the 80's that was the mentality, and I've seen a shit load of interviews with 80's acts that said that exactly. I also think it's a mentality that is more prevalent today than most people seem willing to admit. Second, Sly and the Family Stone, according to various interviews I have read, put on one of the best performances at Woodstock. I don't know if you've noticed but Woodstock was kind of a big deal, and regardless of genre, acts that did well there went on to be fairly well known. So to say that they weren't well known because they weren't a pop act is kind of ignorant.
Back to top Go down
Rosalind
Caretaker of Chaos
Caretaker of Chaos
Rosalind

Posts : 1632
Join date : 2008-05-13
Age : 35
Location : UK

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 11:14 am

Fuck this, im out of here.
Back to top Go down
http://lifer.heavenforum.com
Nautilus
Mantooth
Mantooth
Nautilus

Posts : 526
Join date : 2009-09-06
Age : 33
Location : moonlight is bleeding out of your soul.

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 EmptySun Oct 25, 2009 4:05 pm

AarO)))n wrote:
Monkzum wrote:
Quote :
Yeah sure funk and pop aren't the same things. I never said anything about that, i'm just addressing the things that you're wrong about.
No one said pop and funk were the same thing. As I and Alex have pointed out SEVERAL times. They played Fuck but were a pop band as the term applied in their time.

Pop=Funk - Page 3 Ohyou
Back to top Go down
https://www.facebook.com/iwokeuptoday
Sponsored content




Pop=Funk - Page 3 Vide
PostSubject: Re: Pop=Funk   Pop=Funk - Page 3 Empty

Back to top Go down
 

Pop=Funk

View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 4 Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Permissions in this forum: You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Lifer :: General :: Debater's Den -