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 Moview Review: Dogma

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Dawn Bearer
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PostSubject: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 12:12 pm

Title: Dogma
Rating: 3/5
Genre: Comedy, Fantasy
Starring: Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, Linda Fiorentino
Director: Kevin Smith

Two fallen angels, "Affleck" and "Damon" find a loop in the Catholic dogma which will let them reenter Paradise after being cast out, thus proving God wrong and by that ending existence. "Fiorentino" is the Last Scion that is supposed to stop them and protect the universe from being erased. I won't deny that "Smith" wrote a script that is clever in handling many theological aspects, something that interest me, but in many parts we are presented with a "toilette-humor" that just ruins what could have been a great film. From the beginning we see messages that we should be open minded while watching it, it did anger many, and so I tried to be as open minded as I can. It wasn't the "blasphemy" or "heresy" that lowered the film's status, but many completely stupid events that we shall see. "Not born, but shit into existence!" These are literal words that I'd leave it to your imagination to try and find out what kind of demon we would encounter.

Religious films always interested me, and this one is no exception. "Smith" did present us with pretty interesting matters that I'd love to have a good conversation on. Considering this is a film review, I won't go deeper into the theological aspects. He was smart in writing many parts of the film, but the thing is, he just included many stupid and irrelevant parts. Sometimes I wasn't sure if he was really trying to mix "Wings of Desire" with "American Pie". He did pay attention to many aspects that other writers might neglect, and this I give him points for, such as the "sex" of the angels. I enjoyed how the homage to the classical "fallen angels" tale was made in the theme and the discussions of our two angels; I was actually impressed by some parts. The film at many parts tries to be "funny", which end up being idiotic and irrational. I won't expect a critique of the pure reasons of humor in such films, but I'd expect if someone woke up to a burning-talking man in his room to do other than bring a fire extinguisher then wait around with a baseball bat, completely ignoring the fact the dude was talking while being on fire, unharmed.

The concept of the voyage I enjoyed. We will meet many interesting characters. They are too many to mention, each of them in his/her quirky weird way amusing. I respect "Smith" for being bald in what he shows us. Nothing holds him back in showing what he desires to be shown. While this comes out will in some parts, in other parts I feel we are over-shown. I would have enjoyed some air of mystery considering the subject at hand. He brought out the best in each actor/actress. "Affleck" and "Damon" had this natural charisma between them; they are the ones I enjoyed the most. "Fiorentino" was quite funny in a sarcastic manner in many parts, but I felt she was a bit melodramatic in other parts. These are the ones I enjoyed the most, though we will meet many others. I am sure each of would have his/her favorites.

The film could have been better I think if it defined its path better. Sometimes we shall feel it's aiming to please too many kinds of film lovers. While this task isn't impossible to do, here I felt it wasn't done properly. We will encounter many plot absurdities that I think contradict logic even for an atheist, especially where was "God" while all this was taking place. We will find out, no shyness there, but what we will find out is just absurd. This is completely a bad film; I might see it again in another time. But we just would feel that "Smith" didn't know what his limits are. It's wasn't a bore to watch. There are those who will enjoy it more than I did and there are those who would dislike it more than I did. Anyone who desires to see it should take into count that this is a film; "Smith" didn't try to be "St. Thomas Aquinas".

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Ziegenbartami
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 12:35 pm

Have you seen any of Smith's other films like Clerks?
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Dawn Bearer
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 12:37 pm

I heard of them, I know Clerks, but I haven't actually. The two characters from Clerks were launched from this film actually.
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Rosalind
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 12:40 pm

I've lost count of how many times I've seen this. It always seems to be on and I don't know why; its probably one of his worst. Clerks I+II were far better, even Jay and Silent Bob was half decent because it had so many cameo's and ridiculous plots that took the piss out of itself. You were probably a little more lenient on this than I would be.

Well, at least it wasn't as bad "Chasing Amy." *shudders*

EDIT: You need to watch Clerks. The two characters that cameo'd in this were Jay and Silent Bob (Silent Bob being Kevin Smith, and Jay doing the perfect stoner impression being that he was permanently stoned for every film).

EDIT2: However, Alanis Morisette makes an awesome God.
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Rosalind
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PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 12:43 pm

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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 1:12 pm

This and Zack and Miri Make a Porno are the only film's of his I enjoyed(though he only directed Zack and Miri). Clerks did nothing for me.
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Ziegenbartami
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 2:01 pm

Dawn Bearer wrote:
I heard of them, I know Clerks, but I haven't actually. The two characters from Clerks were launched from this film actually.
Actually it's the other way around, Clerks was Smith's first film, so the characters are based off that Razz
But the point I was trying to make is, the style of humor in Dogma is more or less the same in all his films, so someone familiar with his other work would come into this film expecting what you refer to as 'toilette-humor.
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son_ov_hades
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 2:44 pm

Yeah I fell like your biggest problem with this movie was that you had the wrong expectations. Dogma is very Kevin Smith, so someone who had seen his other movies would have known what to expect.
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 3:12 pm

Now I've read it through, I think almost the exact opposite. Affleck/Damon may have worked well together but handle comedy about as well as Schwarzenegger in "Kindergarten Cop," (i.e. badly) and the biggest problem with the film was that they tried to tie in too many characters into some kind of epic saga. There was too much plot and not enough oddball humour, which is what Smith revels in. Clerks I+II is more sketch show/film than something with a consistent plot and that's the film that made him. Chris Rock/Jay and Silent Bob were the best things about this film.
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Dawn Bearer
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 3:38 pm

Rosalind wrote:

EDIT: You need to watch Clerks. The two characters that cameo'd in this were Jay and Silent Bob (Silent Bob being Kevin Smith, and Jay doing the perfect stoner impression being that he was permanently stoned for every film).

I will watch Clerks.

I think it's a matter of conlfecting views here. I focused on Affleck/Damon becuase I saw they are more important in this film. I have mentioned that each one would find characters he/she would like/dislike more.
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Dawn Bearer
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 3:41 pm

Ziegenbartami wrote:
Actually it's the other way around, Clerks was Smith's first film, so the characters are based off that Razz
But the point I was trying to make is, the style of humor in Dogma is more or less the same in all his films, so someone familiar with his other work would come into this film expecting what you refer to as 'toilette-humor.

Sorry. Laughing

The film I felt wasn't that effective in mixing styles. At moments we see he's trying to pose some serious problems into questions, at others, well, we have a demon shit into existence.
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Dawn Bearer
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 3:43 pm

son_ov_hades wrote:
Yeah I fell like your biggest problem with this movie was that you had the wrong expectations. Dogma is very Kevin Smith, so someone who had seen his other movies would have known what to expect.

And some one who have seen American Pie(s) would know what to expect from their sequels. I tried to be objective. I just feel the seriousness/unseriousness don't work well here.
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 4:15 pm

Dawn Bearer wrote:
son_ov_hades wrote:
Yeah I fell like your biggest problem with this movie was that you had the wrong expectations. Dogma is very Kevin Smith, so someone who had seen his other movies would have known what to expect.

And some one who have seen American Pie(s) would know what to expect from their sequels. I tried to be objective. I just feel the seriousness/unseriousness don't work well here.

It's cool, I get what you meant. Sure my opinion of this movie has a lot to do with seeing and liking Clerks and Mallrats before it.
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Dawn Bearer
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Moview Review: Dogma Vide
PostSubject: Re: Moview Review: Dogma   Moview Review: Dogma EmptyFri Dec 11, 2009 4:33 pm

son_ov_hades wrote:
It's cool, I get what you meant. Sure my opinion of this movie has a lot to do with seeing and liking Clerks and Mallrats before it.

I will see Clerks, then I'd have a wider view. Beard
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