Abominog wrote:

@ Aaron

Quote :

The point system was being abused, period. Now it's gone, period.

Really? How so? Because the last time some one thought it was being "abused' he was made fun of(jokingly I know)about how silly he was to get upset about things that didn't really matter. Then it was put to a vote as to wether to keep them, change them, or get rid of them. So why suddenly does it have to be gotten rid of this time with no discussion or vote as was done before?

Quote :

How did you come to that conclusion? Gareth left the group because of a rating system. It was us who convinced him that he was being silly and to come back. Fair game? Unfair comment. It isn't working in it's desired capacity, so it is gone. And the choice to remove the points system wasn't unilateral, it was a majority administrative decision.

Here's how. Because saying they were being abused means what exactly? Because Thomas got negative rep points every time he tried to make childish jokes having to do with our discussion about slap bass? Or because positive rep points were given to those who called him out on his false accusations? Or because people agreed with things that others didn't like? I say again. How come they seemed not to matter, but suddenly they matter so much that they have no choice but to be removed? Also, what was there "proper capacity"? They didn't matter remember. So how is there a proper and improper way of doing it? I could care less about the points or post counts. I am here to talk music. I just think some honesty as to why they were REALLY gotten rid of would be nice.

Quote :

As I said above, Thomas does not make unilateral decisions. Most relevant decisions he makes are discussed to some degree between the admins before any action is taken. He will not make potentially controversial decisions without first taking council with enough admins to arrive at a majority decision.
An apology is in order I think.

So according to him. He and Carl decided they were not needed any more. You were fine with what ever decision. Isn't Dale an Admin? Yet he was not consulted and in fact was surprised to see them gone. Now he more than likely would have voted for them to be removed. But why was his vote not counted or waited for? True he can't make the decision on his own. But that didn't stop him from making the threat did it? I will not apologize again. His comments to me stem from another incident and he knows it. I said what I said for a reason.

Quote :

Look man, I don't know if you are just trying to be witty or sarcastic, but your posts are seemingly very antagonistic and argumentative. The people who are admins in Lifer are there for a reason. They tend to be level headed and fair. Any opinion to the opposite of that merely calls my judgment into question, and I personally think that I have made the right decisions in whom I've decided to bestow my trust upon.
Lighten up a bit, and trust the guys. They aren't trying to be pricks. They just want what's best for the forum. If you have a differing opinion, by all means share it. But try not to let it become a rolling argument in the future. The guys (and gal) know what they are doing.

I don't doubt their abilities nor your decision making. But these changes to the point system have an underlying reason. As said many times by me. If they were never that big of a deal and they meant nothing(all of which was said when Gaerth got upset). Then how is it possible that they were being "abused"? How can you abuse something that is supposed to have no meaning and hold no bearing on what goes on in here? The reasons people give or take points are for a variety of reason, none of which should matter. If they are gone so be it. I am not advocating their return. It just seems odd that they suddenly had to be removed when certain people who could remove them began to disagree with the way they were used. If you are interested in the cause of my "antagonistic" ways. Go take a gadder at the Funk=Pop thread. I would tell to look at the E.P. the Thomas posted in the Music News section. But after he got a negative rep point for his 15th childish joke about me stemming from conversation that was LONG over, he erased it. I am not here to start fights John. Just stating an opinion about decisions made.

If they don't matter as you repeatedly say, why are you so upset about their removal? They were removed because points were being given for comments like "Since when did Thomas turn into Julian?". It was said in the previous discussion how the points were to be distributed to avoid a popularity contest, but they did end up being used for this, so they were removed.

Cool it a bit, guys. On every forum I've ever been to with "rep points", it's always resulted in e-drama of some sort. We all know each other here anyway.

Nautilus wrote:

Cool it a bit, guys. On every forum I've ever been to with "rep points", it's always resulted in e-drama of some sort. We all know each other here anyway.

Thanks. And totally agreed.

"Then it was put to a vote as to wether to keep them, change them, or get rid of them. So why suddenly does it have to be gotten rid of this time with no discussion or vote as was done before?"

The overwhelming response was 'who cares,' so why delay for a re-vote?

"Because saying they were being abused means what exactly?"

It means the purpose for which they were intended to be used was not fulfilled. It was intended from the very beginning as a way of delivering reputation, much like the officer position bestowed. Those who are helpful and capable of articulating their thoughts were given recognition of that. Instead it became a popularity contest. If you like what was popular you got reputation. Their intention has been posted here since the forum began. It was written for reputation before the forum was opened, and modified when points were introduced. Evidently you never read it - as many didn't - and since they weren't fulfilling their purpose were removed.

"So according to him. He and Carl decided they were not needed any more. You were fine with what ever decision. Isn't Dale an Admin?"

Two is a larger number than one. I didn't think that needed pointing out.

"I will not apologize again. His comments to me stem from another incident and he knows it. I said what I said for a reason."

Have I brought it up? No. This is a new accusation to your repertoire, and the response i've given is an explanation for the actions taken. Don't like it? Tough. Nobodies forcing you to stay.

Bidley wrote:

If they don't matter as you repeatedly say, why are you so upset about their removal? They were removed because points were being given for comments like "Since when did Thomas turn into Julian?". It was said in the previous discussion how the points were to be distributed to avoid a popularity contest, but they did end up being used for this, so they were removed.

Well as also repeatedly said. I don't care that they are gone. I just find the reasons suspicious. So because I gave a positive rep point to Geoff for something I agreed with show that I think he is popular? No it meant I agreed with his statement and thought it was helpful to the discussion. But the fact that you used it as an example, proves my point on why they were removed.

Well I am about to make a poor choice (surprise). I was told they meant nothing by admins, and then in separate conversations, the same admins said I was giving them out in an unfair matter. If they mean nothing then how could I have given them out unfairly?

I say that admins reaped what they sowed, they repeatedly said they meant nothing, which means people treated them as if they meant nothing. You said they weren't meeting their intended purpose, the intended purpose of nothing?

Here comes the poor choice, while I wouldn't have questioned your guys' judgment previously, after seeing the results of this points fiasco I have no choice but to question it now. If you guys were going to interfere with the point system so often (2 complete changes in as many months), because people weren't giving them out the way you intended, you should have reserved the ability to give out points for yourselves from the beginning. It obviously means something or it would have a) not created in the first point, or b) people would leave them the fuck alone.

General consensus was that people thought the rep/points meant nothing based on statements made by the inner circle. You led people to believe that they meant nothing, people treated them as such, if you intended for it to be otherwise, then YES I'm questioning your judgment.

I thought this was a forum where everyones opinion was equal. On FB Lifer many people had no idea who the admins were, because they stayed out of things. I saw a post on FB the other day Lindsay didn't even know she was an admin there. On the external forum I have had admin/moderator opinions jammed down my throat repeatedly.

Who are you guys to tell people that they do /do not take offense to comments, that they do / do not, appreciate an action by someone?

The recent trend of admin/moderators wanting to be treated as if they are infallible is a load of shit. I will put you as first among equals, not gods. You're a bunch of internet jerk-offs in a group full internet jerk-offs (myself included).

Rosalind wrote:

Don't like it? Tough. Nobodies forcing you to stay.

Very level headed

[quote="Rosalind"]"Then it was put to a vote as to wether to keep them, change them, or get rid of them. So why suddenly does it have to be gotten rid of this time with no discussion or vote as was done before?"

Quote :

The overwhelming response was 'who cares,' so why delay for a re-vote?

Then why were they kept in the first place if the original vote was SOO overwhelming?

"Because saying they were being abused means what exactly?"

Quote :

It means the purpose for which they were intended to be used was not fulfilled. It was intended from the very beginning as a way of delivering reputation, much like the officer position bestowed. Those who are helpful and capable of articulating their thoughts were given recognition of that. Instead it became a popularity contest. If you like what was popular you got reputation. Their intention has been posted here since the forum began. It was written for reputation before the forum was opened, and modified when points were introduced. Evidently you never read it - as many didn't - and since they weren't fulfilling their purpose were removed.

How do you know that that was how they were used? As stated to Carl. I gave Geoff the positive point because I agreed, not because of popularity. I gave you a negative point when you made your joke about me not liking the To-Mera E.P. because it was British, because I felt it was not helpful or needed. Not because I thought it was the popular thing to do(as it is proving not to be).

"So according to him. He and Carl decided they were not needed any more. You were fine with what ever decision. Isn't Dale an Admin?"

Quote :

Two is a larger number than one. I didn't think that needed pointing out.

Really? Thanks. But my point was why not wait to see what the other Admin had to say? Perhaps his opinion could have swayed John or even yourself?

"I will not apologize again. His comments to me stem from another incident and he knows it. I said what I said for a reason."

Quote :

Have I brought it up? No. This is a new accusation to your repertoire, and the response i've given is an explanation for the actions taken. Don't like it? Tough. Nobodies forcing you to stay.

As of late, no. But then you did erase the To-Mera comment. Maybe you realized it was not worth it any more. Of course you did say to Alex when questioned as to why To-Mera was on your Prog list, "Why too British". So yeah I guess you have brought it up again. That coupled with your threat to me about not "fucking" with you and that you seem not to respond to me in here or FB Lifer. For me it is over Thomas and I would like to move on. I don't get the same feeling from you. Or am I adding yet another "accusation to my repertoire"?

I can see where reputation is given, as anyone can. I didn't give Mostafa a neg rep for every post I disagreed with in our arguments, as that's not how it was meant to be used. Personally, I've given up trying to make any jokes about any previous conversations, and wont make any towards you in the future. I'll be the cold, logical Admin you want me to be.

@ Aaron

Woah!! So now you are going to have a rolling argument with me?!?!? Don't think so. I've been made sick of them by Julian and the MH douches, and by participating with them to the degree that I did, I got away from who I was and why I created Lifer in the first place. Anyway, I'll address some of your issues this one more time, then hopefully we can carry on with the stuff we're supposed to be carrying on with.

So why suddenly does it have to be gotten rid of this time with no discussion or vote as was done before?

As you've pointed out so many times, who cares. I didn't even recognize them in the first place. If it's such a none issue, why make it such?

Quote :

Here's how. Because saying they were being abused means what exactly? Because Thomas got negative rep points every time he tried to make childish jokes having to do with our discussion about slap bass? Or because positive rep points were given to those who called him out on his false accusations? Or because people agreed with things that others didn't like?

I admittedly know little as to what has been going on between you guys, but whatever it is, please resolve it peacefully between yourselves, and NOT ON THE BOARDS. I've told Tom and Carl the same. I grow tired of the constant bickering and drama that constantly seems to pop up(and I am just as guilty of being involved in them), and it's time for us all to get back to arguing about what we are supposed to be arguing about. Music, not silly rep points that ultimately mean absolutely nothing.

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Isn't Dale an Admin?

A majority was reached by present admins, so his input was unnecessary. And I'm pretty certain he wouldn't give a rats ass.

Quote :

I am not here to start fights John. Just stating an opinion about decisions made.

I know that Aaron. And I can relate to your concerns, but they are what they are and the decision was made. However, they are outside of why we are all really here. People are going to disagree about things, that's a certainty. But there is absolutely no need to get angry or upset about any of it. Sometimes the best tact is to agree to disagree. You and the English contingent seem to knock heads with all too much frequency, and it has to come to a head. I say either resolve your differences personally(ie: Off the boards), or move on and forget about it. We are all adults here.

EDIT: BTW, I HAVE noticed that you do take things a little too seriously sometimes Aaron. Sometimes jokes made at your expense, that were obviously jokes IMO, were taken out of context.

Rosalind wrote:

I can see where reputation is given, as anyone can. I didn't give Mostafa a neg rep for every post I disagreed with in our arguments, as that's not how it was meant to be used. Personally, I've given up trying to make any jokes about any previous conversations, and wont make any towards you in the future. I'll be the cold, logical Admin you want me to be.

Unfortunate, but perhaps for the best. Either way, the butting of heads between you two has to end. Ultimately serves no positive purpose.

So....Just looked in the paino tread and say you posted something with Astrid Van De Veen and I looked her up on MA, found out she is in a stoner metal band called Stone In Egypt, have you heard any of their work ? Could be awesome to get some more albums with her as vocalist enjoyed Fate of a Dreamer alot.

@ GARETH

While you have made some valid points, I do wish you would choose your wording more carefully please. I may become angry and fry you to a crisp with a lightning bolt from my arse.


Couple of points.

Quote :

I saw a post on FB the other day Lindsay didn't even know she was an admin there.

She knows full well that she is an admin. I think she was using something called humor there Gareth.

Quote :

The recent trend of admin/moderators wanting to be treated as if they are infallible is a load of shit. I will put you as first among equals, not gods. You're a bunch of internet jerk-offs in a group full internet jerk-offs (myself included).

As you fully know, only I am infallible, and indeed a God. the others not so much. Just thought I'd clear that up. And while Carl, Dale and Carl are clearly jerk-offs, I hope you are not intimating that I am one too. If so, see my first comment.

Quote :

Rosalind wrote:
Don't like it? Tough. Nobodies forcing you to stay.


Very level headed

OK, seriously here. Pushing your luck. Thomas is merely pointing out that we are running this board, and have final say. While your input is welcome, remember who runs the show. I think he could have chosen better wording perhaps, but the tension between he and Aaron is tangible, and needs to be sorted. None of your business either, so stay out of it.

Abominog wrote:

OK, seriously here. Pushing your luck. Thomas is merely pointing out that we are running this board, and have final say. While your input is welcome, remember who runs the show. I think he could have chosen better wording perhaps, but the tension between he and Aaron is tangible, and needs to be sorted. None of your business either, so stay out of it.

Fair enough, because you made my point for me, poor choice of words.

As far as the actual heat between them I fully intend to stay out of it. BUT if the attitude of your "level-headed" admins is if you don't like it leave, especially to the person who posts here the most often, it sucks fucking balls, and that is more what I was commenting on.

A level headed person would put more effort into resolving the issue, then resorting to shit like that. I think that is fair enough to say, no?

As for the internet jerk-off thing, I hold that every regular here is exactly that, we spend too much time here arguing about the definitions of some obscure genre, that really doesn't fucking matter.

Ask yourself this, when you're on your death bed, and looking back on your life, and all the things you never did, are you going to say "Thank god I spent all that time on the internet arguing with a bunch of fuckwads, about who knows what, while life passed me by?"

My answer is no, I won't be happy and see my posting here dropping off considerably in the next bit. I will rec stuff to some people if they ask, and post the occassional "my fucking god I love this album". This place used to be jovial, we'd joke about Chan fapping the The Chasm so much, etc. Now it's a bitch-fest. Some of the old regulars are still my friends on FB, and they said they stopped coming because it was too bitchy here, fuck we even inspired a "We hate Lifer" group.

Ever think the reason every Korn/Slipknot/Pantera fan that came to the group was a asshole? Maybe because we started off by being an asshole to them, and they met kind in kind, and were assholes back. This group is slipping more and more towards something I don't really support.

Oh yeah don't worry I know........ If I don't like it I can just fucking leave.

Silchias Ruin wrote:

Abominog wrote:

OK, seriously here. Pushing your luck. Thomas is merely pointing out that we are running this board, and have final say. While your input is welcome, remember who runs the show. I think he could have chosen better wording perhaps, but the tension between he and Aaron is tangible, and needs to be sorted. None of your business either, so stay out of it.

Fair enough, because you made my point for me, poor choice of words.

As far as the actual heat between them I fully intend to stay out of it. BUT if the attitude of your "level-headed" admins is if you don't like it leave, especially to the person who posts here the most often, it sucks fucking balls, and that is more what I was commenting on.

A level headed person would put more effort into resolving the issue, then resorting to shit like that. I think that is fair enough to say, no?

As for the internet jerk-off thing, I hold that every regular here is exactly that, we spend too much time here arguing about the definitions of some obscure genre, that really doesn't fucking matter.

Ask yourself this, when you're on your death bed, and looking back on your life, and all the things you never did, are you going to say "Thank god I spent all that time on the internet arguing with a bunch of fuckwads, about who knows what, while life passed me by?"

My answer is no, I won't be happy and see my posting here dropping off considerably in the next bit. I will rec stuff to some people if they ask, and post the occassional "my fucking god I love this album". This place used to be jovial, we'd joke about Chan fapping the The Chasm so much, etc. Now it's a bitch-fest. Some of the old regulars are still my friends on FB, and they said they stopped coming because it was too bitchy here, fuck we even inspired a "We hate Lifer" group.

Ever think the reason every Korn/Slipknot/Pantera fan that came to the group was a asshole? Maybe because we started off by being an asshole to them, and they met kind in kind, and were assholes back. This group is slipping more and more towards something I don't really support.

Oh yeah don't worry I know........ If I don't like it I can just fucking leave.

I ended the first argument by saying I was through with it. I make light of the situation in a jovial manner and he calls me out for bringing back up an argument I ended. I ignore other comments about my character and still I see no end to it. He's made up his mind about me and my attempts to amend it have failed. I've given up trying.

Peter wrote:

So....Just looked in the paino tread and say you posted something with Astrid Van De Veen and I looked her up on MA, found out she is in a stoner metal band called Stone In Egypt, have you heard any of their work ? Could be awesome to get some more albums with her as vocalist enjoyed Fate of a Dreamer alot.

I have her two solo albums, but she was only present for one track I believe, for Stone in Egypt.

Rosalind wrote:

Peter wrote:

So....Just looked in the paino tread and say you posted something with Astrid Van De Veen and I looked her up on MA, found out she is in a stoner metal band called Stone In Egypt, have you heard any of their work ? Could be awesome to get some more albums with her as vocalist enjoyed Fate of a Dreamer alot.

I have her two solo albums, but she was only present for one track I believe, for Stone in Egypt.

Are the solo albums any good ? In danish stores semi obscure/obscure metal bands vanish from sight and you have to find speciel stores to get the records you want, Fate of a Dreamer was one of them, but from what I understand it's out of production ?

Peter wrote:

Rosalind wrote:

Peter wrote:

So....Just looked in the paino tread and say you posted something with Astrid Van De Veen and I looked her up on MA, found out she is in a stoner metal band called Stone In Egypt, have you heard any of their work ? Could be awesome to get some more albums with her as vocalist enjoyed Fate of a Dreamer alot.

I have her two solo albums, but she was only present for one track I believe, for Stone in Egypt.

Are the solo albums any good ? In danish stores semi obscure/obscure metal bands vanish from sight and you have to find speciel stores to get the records you want, Fate of a Dreamer was one of them, but from what I understand it's out of production ?

The first one was pretty good - the backing wasn't there but vocals were still top notch. The second one, not so much imo, but its still nice to hear her voice. They're all ridiculously hard to find, and out of print. I've been hunting a copy of "Fate of a Dreamer" for almost a year now, and not seen it go for less than £50. I can up them for you if you want though.

Rosalind wrote:

Peter wrote:

Rosalind wrote:

Peter wrote:

So....Just looked in the paino tread and say you posted something with Astrid Van De Veen and I looked her up on MA, found out she is in a stoner metal band called Stone In Egypt, have you heard any of their work ? Could be awesome to get some more albums with her as vocalist enjoyed Fate of a Dreamer alot.

I have her two solo albums, but she was only present for one track I believe, for Stone in Egypt.

Are the solo albums any good ? In danish stores semi obscure/obscure metal bands vanish from sight and you have to find speciel stores to get the records you want, Fate of a Dreamer was one of them, but from what I understand it's out of production ?

The first one was pretty good - the backing wasn't there but vocals were still top notch. The second one, not so much imo, but its still nice to hear her voice. They're all ridiculously hard to find, and out of print. I've been hunting a copy of "Fate of a Dreamer" for almost a year now, and not seen it go for less than £50. I can up them for you if you want though.

No need. Have like 50 hours of music I got recently from a friend that I need to hear.

Pffft. Only 50?

"This place used to be jovial, we'd joke about Chan fapping the The Chasm so much, etc. Now it's a bitch-fest. Some of the old regulars are still my friends on FB, and they said they stopped coming because it was too bitchy here, fuck we even inspired a "We hate Lifer" group."

I missed this first time around, and I actually agree. I've failed to make a single serious post or recommendation in the past couple of weeks without it either going ignored or sprouting an argument. As a result I've stopped. Don't think this matter hasn't gone unnoticed, I've simply yet figured out a way of resolving it. Debate is - and always will be - healthy, assuming that a mutual understanding is the objective. I think too many have lost sight of that.

Rosalind wrote:

"This place used to be jovial, we'd joke about Chan fapping the The Chasm so much, etc. Now it's a bitch-fest. Some of the old regulars are still my friends on FB, and they said they stopped coming because it was too bitchy here, fuck we even inspired a "We hate Lifer" group."

I missed this first time around, and I actually agree. I've failed to make a single serious post or recommendation in the past couple of weeks without it either going ignored or sprouting an argument. As a result I've stopped. Don't think this matter hasn't gone unnoticed, I've simply yet figured out a way of resolving it. Debate is - and always will be - healthy, assuming that a mutual understanding is the objective. I think too many have lost sight of that.

There's barely recs by anyone in the FB group nowadays, the groups in a streak of off-topicness.

The_Accolade wrote:

Rosalind wrote:

"This place used to be jovial, we'd joke about Chan fapping the The Chasm so much, etc. Now it's a bitch-fest. Some of the old regulars are still my friends on FB, and they said they stopped coming because it was too bitchy here, fuck we even inspired a "We hate Lifer" group."

I missed this first time around, and I actually agree. I've failed to make a single serious post or recommendation in the past couple of weeks without it either going ignored or sprouting an argument. As a result I've stopped. Don't think this matter hasn't gone unnoticed, I've simply yet figured out a way of resolving it. Debate is - and always will be - healthy, assuming that a mutual understanding is the objective. I think too many have lost sight of that.

There's barely recs by anyone in the FB group nowadays, the groups in a streak of off-topicness.

My rec's are where they always are. As a long string of reviews on the blog

Rosalind wrote:

"This place used to be jovial, we'd joke about Chan fapping the The Chasm so much, etc. Now it's a bitch-fest. Some of the old regulars are still my friends on FB, and they said they stopped coming because it was too bitchy here, fuck we even inspired a "We hate Lifer" group."

I missed this first time around, and I actually agree. I've failed to make a single serious post or recommendation in the past couple of weeks without it either going ignored or sprouting an argument. As a result I've stopped. Don't think this matter hasn't gone unnoticed, I've simply yet figured out a way of resolving it. Debate is - and always will be - healthy, assuming that a mutual understanding is the objective. I think too many have lost sight of that.

I agree with this, and let me be the first to admit that I have been a large part of it, I know it, we all know it, so I'm not going to beat around the bush. Sometimes I feel like I'm drawn into it, other times it's because I made a poor choice and didn't let it go. So at least part of the solution to this will be me getting my head back on straight. My apologies to all involved.