Quote :

Ok, im going to use your own argument. You're wrong because the Qu'ran is a crock of shit sent to some schizophrenic who claimed to hear the voice of god. He was a polygamist with severe commitment issues who couldn't keep his dick in one woman, and people took his rants a little too seriously.

I think the Ayatollah just issued a Fatwa against you.

Rosalind wrote:

You can argue in a religious debate without disrespecting it. Opening any argument with "you're wrong because," is automatically disrespecting all of those who follow it.

What?! That's not true. There can only be ONE true religion or belief system. All others are wrong. I can be just as wrong as you are, and it's very important that each of us is aware of that. The whole point of religious debates is to try to explain why your belief is the correct one, why you follow it and why other people should. That someone is "wrong" for believing something is implied in every post in this thread.

We can go on like this for a very long time; you say it's un-willingly, I say it's willingly.

Do you think someone having prejudice against budny for his crimes wrong-again not comparing same things- but as Ahmed said, I find it just wrong to go against the nature of the universe, you dont, then it's your choice.

I never used terms like these in any religious debate I've been in. And I dont think I've been evern disrespectufl, but If I ever were, then I apologize.

son_ov_hades wrote:

Quote :

Ok, im going to use your own argument. You're wrong because the Qu'ran is a crock of shit sent to some schizophrenic who claimed to hear the voice of god. He was a polygamist with severe commitment issues who couldn't keep his dick in one woman, and people took his rants a little too seriously.

I think the Ayatollah just issued a Fatwa against you.

Rofl.

Ahmedeus wrote:

Rosalind wrote:

You can argue in a religious debate without disrespecting it. Opening any argument with "you're wrong because," is automatically disrespecting all of those who follow it.

What?! That's not true. There can only be ONE true religion or belief system. All others are wrong. I can be just as wrong as you are, and it's very important that each of us is aware of that. The whole point of religious debates is to try to explain why your belief is the correct one, why you follow it and why other people should. That someone is "wrong" for believing something is implied in every post in this thread.

And the popular opinion of what the true belief is changes all the time. Hell, even Muslim's can't agree on it. That's why there's Sunni and...alright I can't remember the other one (Shia I believe?) And, no that isn't a stab at Islam. Christianity is divided even more.

What makes you sure that for all the thousands of years before Islam existed that they were so hopelessly wrong and you are undeniably right? Why can you not fathom the concept that maybe nobody has it right yet? Assuming there even is a right?

Your religion, by the very way you look at it results in the inevitable consequences of prejudice. What is so bad about the belief that the right answer is not a universal, objective fact but a subjective one? Dependant only on what allows the individual to make the most of themselves? Why can people not be have their own belief without the condemnation of being told their wrong for said belief? I could say liking Green Day is wrong. Is that a universal truth? Of course not, or they wouldn't have such a large following.

You aren't discussing fact here. Its philosophy, opinion. There can be no right or wrong without any actual evidence for either side. Its a debate of wills, of why you believe and what you get from that belief. You can't claim someone else to be wrong without giving evidence to prove yourself right. All you have is the Qu'ran in your favour, and...well Scientology has a holy book too y'know

Mostafa wrote:

We can go on like this for a very long time; you say it's un-willingly, I say it's willingly.

Do you think someone having prejudice against budny for his crimes wrong-again not comparing same things- but as Ahmed said, I find it just wrong to go against the nature of the universe, you dont, then it's your choice.

I never used terms like these in any religious debate I've been in. And I dont think I've been evern disrespectufl, but If I ever were, then I apologize.

That isn't prejudice. Prejudice would be to condemn him before he committed any action, it is the act of pre-judging someone's character without knowing anything about them. And even after his action, no, I don't condemn him. I condemn his actions and believe he should suffer the consequences of those actions, but as far as I'm concerned, when a criminal leaves prison they have paid for what they have done. They shouldn't suffer further.

But hey, I'm gonna put this to the test. If you can will yourself straight, you can will yourself to find people beautiful. So convince me, will yourself to find this woman beautiful and then describe to me what you find beautiful about her. Unless you can do that, I don't see the need for the double standard.

http://bestalitla.blog.is/users/2d/bestalitla/img/c_documents_and_settings_administrator_desktop_my_pictures_ugly_woman.jpg

Also, read the response to Ahmed.

"That isn't prejudice. Prejudice would be to condemn him before he committed any action, it is the act of pre-judging someone's character without knowing anything about them. And even after his action, no, I don't condemn him. I condemn his actions and believe he should suffer the consequences of those actions, but as far as I'm concerned, when a criminal leaves prison they have paid for what they have done. They shouldn't suffer further.

But hey, I'm gonna put this to the test. If you can will yourself straight, you can will yourself to find people beautiful. So convince me, will yourself to find this woman beautiful and then describe to me what you find beautiful about her. Unless you can do that, I don't see the need for the double standard."

I dont condemn anybody before actions -wouldnt even call it condemn.

I dont will myself will or straight, I'am created straight, it's the natural order of things. You'd reply "well, they're created gay" my response would be, no, god doesnt create anyone gay, neither does he create anyone a murderer or a rapist, people choose whatever wrong deeds they comit. I cant tell you that woman is beautiful, that would be lying.

I've read it, but since it's adressed to Ahmed, Ill let him reply to it, and I dont wont to get in another side debate with you lol after this one ends by a couple of weeks maybe.

"What is so bad about the belief that the right answer is not a universal, objective fact but a subjective one? Dependant only on what allows the individual to make the most of themselves?"

You're looking for the easy way out. That way, everyone is right. God is no longer important, and people only follow religion if it appeals to them and seems to make their earthly life "easier".

"Why do you believe what you believe? Is there any reason for it?"
"Oh it's just my personal preference."

Completely defeats the purpose. Religion isn't just a way of life, which is suitable for some and not suitable for others. It says "believe, or you're going to hell". What you're saying is illogical, there is only one road to one destination. You can't worship a false God all your life, and be expected to be forgiven by a God which really exists, assuming He does.

"You can't claim someone else to be wrong without giving evidence to prove yourself right."

What I was saying was, all the parties should enter a debate knowing that there is a possibility of them being wrong. That doesn't mean you should be weak or not have a strong faith. Of course, if you believe that no one is wrong, that's a different thing. The "proving yourself" thing is what happens later in the actual debate.

Mostafa wrote:

"That isn't prejudice. Prejudice would be to condemn him before he committed any action, it is the act of pre-judging someone's character without knowing anything about them. And even after his action, no, I don't condemn him. I condemn his actions and believe he should suffer the consequences of those actions, but as far as I'm concerned, when a criminal leaves prison they have paid for what they have done. They shouldn't suffer further.

But hey, I'm gonna put this to the test. If you can will yourself straight, you can will yourself to find people beautiful. So convince me, will yourself to find this woman beautiful and then describe to me what you find beautiful about her. Unless you can do that, I don't see the need for the double standard."

I dont condemn anybody before actions -wouldnt even call it condemn.

I dont will myself will or straight, I'am created straight, it's the natural order of things. You'd reply "well, they're created gay" my response would be, no, god doesnt create anyone gay, neither does he create anyone a murderer or a rapist, people choose whatever wrong deeds they comit. I cant tell you that woman is beautiful, that would be lying.

I've read it, but since it's adressed to Ahmed, Ill let him reply to it, and I dont wont to get in another side debate with you lol after this one ends by a couple of weeks maybe.

So you admit you can't change how you perceive beauty, yet you believe that gay people can? So you admit to holding a double standard?

Ahmedeus wrote:

"What is so bad about the belief that the right answer is not a universal, objective fact but a subjective one? Dependant only on what allows the individual to make the most of themselves?"

You're looking for the easy way out. That way, everyone is right. God is no longer important, and people only follow religion if it appeals to them and seems to make their earthly life "easier".

"Why do you believe what you believe? Is there any reason for it?"
"Oh it's just my personal preference."

Completely defeats the purpose. Religion isn't just a way of life, which is suitable for some and not suitable for others. It says "believe, or you're going to hell". What you're saying is illogical, there is only one road to one destination. You can't worship a false God all your life, and be expected to be forgiven by a God which really exists, assuming He does.

God is still as important to you as it ever was. Just because it isn't important to someone else doesn't mean it should affect you, nor should (imo) it result in feelings of hostility towards those with a difference of opinion. So ultimately nothing changes.

Why can't there be multiple paths? There are hundreds of ways to get from A to B in reality, so why not in religion? What's more important, sharing your own identical beliefs or simply having faith?

And yes, ultimately that is what religion is about. Mostafa said it himself: Its a choice. You may believe others to make it wrong, but they would argue otherwise. Who is right? It's two sides incapable of much more of an elaborate response than "NOU." You choose the path that offers you the most inspiration, the most peace of mind and solace here on earth. That's all anyone does. Given the choice between the easy road and the hard, its human nature to choose the easy path. If your own religion can't come to a conclusion as to the correct path, how on earth are you meant to argue you've got it right?

Mostafa wrote:

You're using a fucking computer and talking to people who live thousands of miles away! That's about as unnatural as it fucking gets yet you complain that sticking your cock into another man's arse isn't natural? Please, give me a break.
Talk about a strong argument, I'am using a computer talking to people, wow , that's super un-natural dude. Come up with something better, please.

How is it not solid proof? I'm no scientist but would you like to explain the grwat number of closet homosexuals then? You discount it as evidence because it goes against your argument, pathetic.
Even more irrelevant talk, I asked for proof, not your opinion, and yet you've given non, just all the "fuk u pathetic fag" argument, again, come up with something better.

I don't need to know you to call you close minded, all the evidence is right here. Were you brought up muslim? You believe anything given to you because people told you from a young age that everything that's told to you is right. You close minded people are the reason that people are being hanged for homosexuality. This isn't about god, I never made it about god. I find it disgusting that you would compare homosexuality with murder or any other 'sin'. Stop trying to look like a victim when you're going about accusing homosexuals of being sinners.

This is called stereotyping dude, so me being raised as a muslim makes me closed minded and brainwashed ? Keep talking without proof. No one is hanged for homosexuality ffs, where the hell does that happen ? And yes it is about god, he didnt create man to have sex with men, but with women, so I'd thinking going against his natural order would piss him off. Homosexuality is worse than murder. How the hell am I being the victim ?[/quote]

Everytime you can't answer a question you say that I need a better argument. If I need better proof then why can't you answer my simple questions instead of claiming that they're worthless. The internet is not natural, I doubt 'god' wants you to talk to people across the world from a screen anymore than he wants a man to put his penis in another man's arse. It's unnatural, the clothes you're wearing are unnatural. Loads of things are unnatural yet aren't considered sins by you. Explain, go for it.

The closet homosexual talk is proof but of course you discount it because it shows your argument is a load of rubbish. Since it's so stupid then please explain it instead of trying to look like an innocent victim.

I didn't say being a muslim made you closed minded, I said that you are close minded as a result of being brainwashed from an early age. Sad, but it cannot be fixed alas. I know plenty of open minded religious people, you are not one of them believe me.

No one is hanged for homosexuality!? Ahahahaha! Please, how can you possibly try and justify your belief when you're so ignorant and clueless about the world. here, educate yourself!

http://skeptically.org/hhor/id10.html

That last sentence you've given there just shows how fucking pathetic you are. Get off your fucking computer, grab some fucking leaves and go wipe your arse with them if you're so sure that god wants 'natural order'! There's nothing natural about humanity! You listen to metal. That's a sin because it involves being hateful towards god right? Oh wait.. it isn't because that doesn't suit you because you like it. There are millions who would disagree with you here and say that heavy metal is a sin but not you. The same way that if you were homosexual and also a devout muslim you would defend homosexuality whilst ignorants like you say it's a sin.

Seriously, get off the fucking computer if you're going to even dare say that homosexuality is a sin let alone worse than murder.

Ahmedeus wrote:

Will, why so emotional? A guy is trying to tell you what he believes, and you lash out on him with insults. That is hardly the correct way to debate, and you had lost the argument even before you started.

When people say homosexuality is unnatural, they don't mean to say that we shouldn't use computers or wear polyester. That counter-argument is quite irrelevant. What we mean to say is that it interferes with the natural order of the universe. This sounds corny but let me explain. You can look as males and females each as only 50% completely human. There is, and should be, a need to connect with the opposite sex in order to achieve spiritual completeness, and higher awareness of Being. Where am I getting this from? Well, it's our biological nature. Heterosexual love is absolutely necessary for survival. Reproduction is the most important survival instinct humans have. If you do not have it, there's something wrong there and it should be changed.

Your standard argument against this will be "well, there are already enough straight people in the world, they can reproduce". Again, irrelevant. We're talking about a lack of will to survive, here. Everyone should have that will. Besides, if there are already too many people in the world, murder should be alright, suicide should be alright. Note that I'm not equating homosexuality with any of those things, let's stay on topic.

Because he's a little shithead, an ignorant fool with no clue about anything. It's not a debate anymore, Mostafa ended that a while ago when he showed how fucking stupid he actually is. I don't care what he believes in but if he spreads that shit anywhere near me i'll dick on him.

PATIENCE AND TACT ARE VIRTUES FOR MEMBERS

Monkzum wrote:

Mostafa wrote:

Monkzum wrote:

You're using a fucking computer and talking to people who live thousands of miles away! That's about as unnatural as it fucking gets yet you complain that sticking your cock into another man's arse isn't natural? Please, give me a break.
Talk about a strong argument, I'am using a computer talking to people, wow , that's super un-natural dude. Come up with something better, please.

How is it not solid proof? I'm no scientist but would you like to explain the grwat number of closet homosexuals then? You discount it as evidence because it goes against your argument, pathetic.
Even more irrelevant talk, I asked for proof, not your opinion, and yet you've given non, just all the "fuk u pathetic fag" argument, again, come up with something better.

I don't need to know you to call you close minded, all the evidence is right here. Were you brought up muslim? You believe anything given to you because people told you from a young age that everything that's told to you is right. You close minded people are the reason that people are being hanged for homosexuality. This isn't about god, I never made it about god. I find it disgusting that you would compare homosexuality with murder or any other 'sin'. Stop trying to look like a victim when you're going about accusing homosexuals of being sinners.

This is called stereotyping dude, so me being raised as a muslim makes me closed minded and brainwashed ? Keep talking without proof. No one is hanged for homosexuality ffs, where the hell does that happen ? And yes it is about god, he didnt create man to have sex with men, but with women, so I'd thinking going against his natural order would piss him off. Homosexuality is worse than murder. How the hell am I being the victim ?

Everytime you can't answer a question you say that I need a better argument. If I need better proof then why can't you answer my simple questions instead of claiming that they're worthless. The internet is not natural, I doubt 'god' wants you to talk to people across the world from a screen anymore than he wants a man to put his penis in another man's arse. It's unnatural, the clothes you're wearing are unnatural. Loads of things are unnatural yet aren't considered sins by you. Explain, go for it.

The closet homosexual talk is proof but of course you discount it because it shows your argument is a load of rubbish. Since it's so stupid then please explain it instead of trying to look like an innocent victim.

I didn't say being a muslim made you closed minded, I said that you are close minded as a result of being brainwashed from an early age. Sad, but it cannot be fixed alas. I know plenty of open minded religious people, you are not one of them believe me.

No one is hanged for homosexuality!? Ahahahaha! Please, how can you possibly try and justify your belief when you're so ignorant and clueless about the world. here, educate yourself!

http://skeptically.org/hhor/id10.html

That last sentence you've given there just shows how fucking pathetic you are. Get off your fucking computer, grab some fucking leaves and go wipe your arse with them if you're so sure that god wants 'natural order'! There's nothing natural about humanity! You listen to metal. That's a sin because it involves being hateful towards god right? Oh wait.. it isn't because that doesn't suit you because you like it. There are millions who would disagree with you here and say that heavy metal is a sin but not you. The same way that if you were homosexual and also a devout muslim you would defend homosexuality whilst ignorants like you say it's a sin.

Seriously, get off the fucking computer if you're going to even dare say that homosexuality is a sin let alone worse than murder.

Sticking your dick in him wont work. If it works like in India, then a gay action is only the one doing the action. Receiving is not a homosexual action, neither is receiving a blowjob. Weird huh? "Im not gay, I just enjoy being sucked off by men"

Also, whilst I disagree with Mostafa, you're comparing apples and oranges here. The reason he believes it to be wrong is because of his faith. The whole "woman created for man" shebang. The internet isn't unnatural because at no point is it mentioned. To convince him otherwise would be to try and convince against his faith. It isn't happening. You won't convince him that its right, but I had hoped to convince him its not a decision they can choose to make, to alleviate some of his prejudice and turn it into tolerance but even that seems unlikely to happen.

AarO)))n wrote:

PATIENCE AND TACT ARE VIRTUES FOR MEMBERS

I have no patience for idiots, the same way that I doubt you could last a week of a 13 year old girl telling you that Hannah Montana is the greatest singer of all time without providing any argument except NOU!

Frankly, I doubt you'd show any patience for someone who hit your wife or son (unless it was you )


__________________________________________________________________________________________


I'm not really trying to convince him anymore, i've lost hope. I was hoping to get him to realise that being gay was a perfectly acceptable thing and that it wasn't there choice just like you. However I don't really take kindly to some of my friends (who are openly gay) being compared to murderers. Maybe that's just me.

Monkzum wrote:

AarO)))n wrote:

PATIENCE AND TACT ARE VIRTUES FOR MEMBERS

I have no patience for idiots, the same way that I doubt you could last a week of a 13 year old girl telling you that Hannah Montana is the greatest singer of all time without providing any argument except NOU!

'The aim is to avoid blanket statements like "Slayer rawks" or "Metallica suck", but to elicit debates like "Slayer rawk!!!....and heres why....".
In other words, if you are going to argue, back your point up.'

That's on the front page too, i'd like to see him try some of that and i'll calm down.


Frankly, I doubt you'd show any patience for someone who hit your wife or son (unless it was you )


__________________________________________________________________________________________


I'm not really trying to convince him anymore, i've lost hope. I was hoping to get him to realise that being gay was a perfectly acceptable thing and that it wasn't there choice just like you. However I don't really take kindly to some of my friends (who are openly gay) being compared to murderers. Maybe that's just me.

Monkzum wrote:

Monkzum wrote:

AarO)))n wrote:

PATIENCE AND TACT ARE VIRTUES FOR MEMBERS

I have no patience for idiots, the same way that I doubt you could last a week of a 13 year old girl telling you that Hannah Montana is the greatest singer of all time without providing any argument except NOU!

'The aim is to avoid blanket statements like "Slayer rawks" or "Metallica suck", but to elicit debates like "Slayer rawk!!!....and heres why....".
In other words, if you are going to argue, back your point up.'

That's on the front page too, i'd like to see him try some of that and i'll calm down.


Frankly, I doubt you'd show any patience for someone who hit your wife or son (unless it was you )


__________________________________________________________________________________________


I'm not really trying to convince him anymore, i've lost hope. I was hoping to get him to realise that being gay was a perfectly acceptable thing and that it wasn't there choice just like you. However I don't really take kindly to some of my friends (who are openly gay) being compared to murderers. Maybe that's just me.

Same here, but if someone shows intolerance, surely insulting him back makes you just as bad?

Oh, and bi-sexual women ftw. Who else could you compare asses with in the park then make out when you get bored?

Rosalind wrote:

Ahmedeus wrote:

"What is so bad about the belief that the right answer is not a universal, objective fact but a subjective one? Dependant only on what allows the individual to make the most of themselves?"

You're looking for the easy way out. That way, everyone is right. God is no longer important, and people only follow religion if it appeals to them and seems to make their earthly life "easier".

"Why do you believe what you believe? Is there any reason for it?"
"Oh it's just my personal preference."

Completely defeats the purpose. Religion isn't just a way of life, which is suitable for some and not suitable for others. It says "believe, or you're going to hell". What you're saying is illogical, there is only one road to one destination. You can't worship a false God all your life, and be expected to be forgiven by a God which really exists, assuming He does.

God is still as important to you as it ever was. Just because it isn't important to someone else doesn't mean it should affect you, nor should (imo) it result in feelings of hostility towards those with a difference of opinion. So ultimately nothing changes.

Why can't there be multiple paths? There are hundreds of ways to get from A to B in reality, so why not in religion? What's more important, sharing your own identical beliefs or simply having faith?

And yes, ultimately that is what religion is about. Mostafa said it himself: Its a choice. You may believe others to make it wrong, but they would argue otherwise. Who is right? It's two sides incapable of much more of an elaborate response than "NOU." You choose the path that offers you the most inspiration, the most peace of mind and solace here on earth. That's all anyone does. Given the choice between the easy road and the hard, its human nature to choose the easy path. If your own religion can't come to a conclusion as to the correct path, how on earth are you meant to argue you've got it right?

Sects within religions are different belief systems altogether. They only stem from one specific book. How are we meant to argue that we are right? Through discussion. It's not about "NOU", it's about whoever can prove he is right. You may say that there is no physical proof for or against God. Which is true, and that is why the "proof" is limited to logical conclusions and reasoning. The best religion is the right one.

You are assuming that everyone chooses a path that is easier for them. It is not true, Muslims follow the Quran because it will benefit them in afterlife. Not just because it makes life easier for them. Same thing for the other Abrahamic religions.

Why can't there be more ways to get from A to B? Because that's not how religions work. They all say that they and only they are right. Your theory implies that all those religions who claim to be right are erroneous therefore wrong. The only ones I can think of who don't claim that are religious cults, their leaders claiming to be reincarnations of Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad etc. From your point of view, you're seeing things from outside the bubble and thinking that everyone who worships God, in whatever form, will end up in heaven. Assuming there is a God and heaven. This makes everyone right and all paths lead to the same destination. Sounds great, but religions tell you specifically how to live your life. What if you had spent your life doing the opposite? A key Muslim belief is that all the consequences in your afterlife will be the result of your actions on earth. Same thing applies to a lot of other religions.

Rosalind wrote:

So you admit you can't change how you perceive beauty, yet you believe that gay people can? So you admit to holding a double standard?

I'm not gay but I can accept if a man is "beautiful". It is only an aesthetic appreciation. I'm sure a gay guy can find a woman beautiful in the same way. It doesn't have much to do with sexual orientation.

Rosalind wrote:

Monkzum wrote:

Monkzum wrote:

AarO)))n wrote:

PATIENCE AND TACT ARE VIRTUES FOR MEMBERS

I have no patience for idiots, the same way that I doubt you could last a week of a 13 year old girl telling you that Hannah Montana is the greatest singer of all time without providing any argument except NOU!

'The aim is to avoid blanket statements like "Slayer rawks" or "Metallica suck", but to elicit debates like "Slayer rawk!!!....and heres why....".
In other words, if you are going to argue, back your point up.'

That's on the front page too, i'd like to see him try some of that and i'll calm down.


Frankly, I doubt you'd show any patience for someone who hit your wife or son (unless it was you )


__________________________________________________________________________________________


I'm not really trying to convince him anymore, i've lost hope. I was hoping to get him to realise that being gay was a perfectly acceptable thing and that it wasn't there choice just like you. However I don't really take kindly to some of my friends (who are openly gay) being compared to murderers. Maybe that's just me.

Same here, but if someone shows intolerance, surely insulting him back makes you just as bad?

Oh, and bi-sexual women ftw. Who else could you compare asses with in the park then make out when you get bored?

If a child hits you then you hit them back, showing tolerance will just allow them to repeatedly hit you over and over and they'll never learn. You hit the kid and he won't touch you again. It's the same reasoning that we don't have tolerance for murderers. If someone murders someone else we are not just as bad for putting that man in jail.

Monkzum wrote:

AarO)))n wrote:

PATIENCE AND TACT ARE VIRTUES FOR MEMBERS

I have no patience for idiots, the same way that I doubt you could last a week of a 13 year old girl telling you that Hannah Montana is the greatest singer of all time without providing any argument except NOU!

Frankly, I doubt you'd show any patience for someone who hit your wife or son (unless it was you )


__________________________________________________________________________________________


I'm not really trying to convince him anymore, i've lost hope. I was hoping to get him to realise that being gay was a perfectly acceptable thing and that it wasn't there choice just like you. However I don't really take kindly to some of my friends (who are openly gay) being compared to murderers. Maybe that's just me.

Well this is a debate forum. To call names and hurl insults is not the point, and as Thomas pointed out, makes you not much better than him. If he has offended you or those you care about. I understand your anger. but I don't think that is his intent. He is merely debating from his point of view. It is just words. In the end it will change very little in this way of doing things. But just yelling at each other could do much worse. You catch more flies with honey then vinegar. Hitting my wife and kids and saying you are going to are not the same thing. Though I will agree he should try and back up more of his views with something other than, "I don't believe it therefore it is not true." Just be careful how you talk. You don't want Carl coming after you. I AM KIDDING CARL

AarO)))n wrote:

Monkzum wrote:

AarO)))n wrote:

PATIENCE AND TACT ARE VIRTUES FOR MEMBERS

I have no patience for idiots, the same way that I doubt you could last a week of a 13 year old girl telling you that Hannah Montana is the greatest singer of all time without providing any argument except NOU!

Frankly, I doubt you'd show any patience for someone who hit your wife or son (unless it was you )


__________________________________________________________________________________________


I'm not really trying to convince him anymore, i've lost hope. I was hoping to get him to realise that being gay was a perfectly acceptable thing and that it wasn't there choice just like you. However I don't really take kindly to some of my friends (who are openly gay) being compared to murderers. Maybe that's just me.

Well this is a debate forum. To call names and hurl insults is not the point, and as Thomas pointed out, makes you not much better than him. If he has offended you or those you care about. I understand your anger. but I don't think that is his intent. He is merely debating from his point of view. It is just words. In the end it will change very little in this way of doing things. But just yelling at each other could do much worse. You catch more flies with honey then vinegar. Hitting my wife and kids and saying you are going to are not the same thing. Though I will agree he should try and back up more of his views with something other than, "I don't believe it therefore it is not true." Just be careful how you talk. You don't want Carl coming after you. I AM KIDDING CARL

It's not all that different Aaron, i'm defending my friends and you're defending your family. Maybe one is physical and one is emotionally but I think there's enough evidence here that emotional attacking can very soon become physical due to this backwardness that Mostafa is showing.

Monkzum wrote:

If a child hits you then you hit them back, showing tolerance will just allow them to repeatedly hit you over and over and they'll never learn.

How is that way of thinking working out for America in Iraq? Sometimes it is the bigger man that walks away.

Monkzum wrote:

It's not all that different Aaron, i'm defending my friends and you're defending your family. Maybe one is physical and one is emotionally but I think there's enough evidence here that emotional attacking can very soon become physical due to this backwardness that Mostafa is showing.

If Mostafa was to post that he wanted to kill my family. I would be upset, this is true. Though I would not be very worried, considering the chances of that are slim to none. I understand where you are coming from Will. But you really are hurting your cause more than helping it. You are calling him intolerant. But by your response. He will not listen to your side whether you are right or not.

Monkzum wrote:

Ahmedeus wrote:

Will, why so emotional? A guy is trying to tell you what he believes, and you lash out on him with insults. That is hardly the correct way to debate, and you had lost the argument even before you started.

When people say homosexuality is unnatural, they don't mean to say that we shouldn't use computers or wear polyester. That counter-argument is quite irrelevant. What we mean to say is that it interferes with the natural order of the universe. This sounds corny but let me explain. You can look as males and females each as only 50% completely human. There is, and should be, a need to connect with the opposite sex in order to achieve spiritual completeness, and higher awareness of Being. Where am I getting this from? Well, it's our biological nature. Heterosexual love is absolutely necessary for survival. Reproduction is the most important survival instinct humans have. If you do not have it, there's something wrong there and it should be changed.

Your standard argument against this will be "well, there are already enough straight people in the world, they can reproduce". Again, irrelevant. We're talking about a lack of will to survive, here. Everyone should have that will. Besides, if there are already too many people in the world, murder should be alright, suicide should be alright. Note that I'm not equating homosexuality with any of those things, let's stay on topic.

Because he's a little shithead, an ignorant fool with no clue about anything. It's not a debate anymore, Mostafa ended that a while ago when he showed how fucking stupid he actually is. I don't care what he believes in but if he spreads that shit anywhere near me i'll dick on him.

All you're doing is swearing at him. I frankly do not see how he's the shithead. He has apparently offended you so much because he believes homosexuality is not okay? Countless other people believe that, why don't you try to prove them wrong instead of saying how dumb they are. You keep saying that it's not a choice as if you've experienced that yourself. Even if you have, you can not speak for every homosexual on the planet. That seems to be your only argument, "it's not a choice, fuck you, you don't know anything". Let me tell you again, it's not working.

I can't speak for Mostafa, but I personally don't listen to/like/encourage any anti-God messages in metal. I love the music, it doesn't make me any less of a Muslim. Anyway, you're finding irrelevant things just to attack Mostafa.